Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Guitars, Amps and Effects => Topic started by: Doadman on May 09, 2007, 05:13:05 PM
-
So I now have a guitar I love with fantastic pups installed; next I need to get the best sound I can from them. I've decided that as I don't really play in large spaces (home user) the best route for me to take is with a multi FX unit of some sort. I'd like this system to offer me an all in one solution to my guitar needs so I'm looking for some excellent amp models that will run from clean to very high gain as well as a good range of high quality effects.
-
Boss GT8 by far. I have one and its great!
-
I vote for "none".
If you want, and I quote, the "best sound" from your pickups then you should spend your money wisely, even if that means saving up, and buy individual stompboxes.
-
Just because its digital doesn't make it bad.
Its more flexible than single stomps and you don't need to change the knobs for every song!
I know a guy who plays alot of shows and uses a GT8 direct. He traded in his 2 Soldano SLO100's and his rack setup for it.
I use mine with a tube amp, od models into my amps od channel to give it a boost and its awesome. Think how many stomp boxes you'd need!
Oh yeah, I`ve still got an MXR ZW, Boss BF-2 (Japan black label) and I`m going to invest in a metal muff, but the GT8 is my main gigging weapon with the my tube amp.
Alot of people don't spend enough time with these multi fx units. It takes time to match the levels and get it all right but its worth it. 1 power supply, no pedal board required. These aren't plug and play units.
The Pod XT is the worst because all the preamps sound the same!! I`d say GT8, Tonelab, Digitech, Pod.
-
The GT-8 and XT live are about dead even on Harmony Central review ( more reviews for XT though). I had the Pod 2.0 for quite a while and thought it was great, used it with mbox PT LE. I didn't plug my amp in for almost 2 years. One day I decided to try out the amp and very quickly came to the conclusion that the Pod sounds like cr@p by comparison. After hearing only the Pod for so long the differences between the two seemed very significant. That said you can still get sounds out of them that will sit well in a mix. And your audience doesn't care, and can't tell the difference anyway. :wink:
I now use an Axetrak for recording my guitars.
:twisted:
-
I don't like modellers, really takes away the 'signature sound' of your pups and replaces it with something more artificial.
I have tried various Line 6 products and the only one worth buying is the Pod XT and even then i think it is a rip off for what your getting.
Usually with modellers you will be able to find about 2 or 3 good sounds and then the rest is shitee. If i were you i would save for a proper amp, or at least a mini one like an Orange Tiny Terror or something, at least that way you will be able to appreciate the sound of your pickups more.
-
I'm going the MFX route because I don't have a tube amp and as I play in the home, it's impractical to get one as I'll never drive it hard enough to use properly. I admit it may not provide me with 'perfect' tone but realistically, these days such systems are very good indeed. I'm hoping to test each of these units in a couple of weeks but thought it might be useful to get some opinions first. From what I've read so far the GT8 sounds great but can be very fiddly to use; the Pod XT Live is also very good but can be a bit 'fizzy'; I've not read much on the Tonelab LE but I know the old one wasn't too good on high gain sounds and the GNX3000 seems broadly good at everything.
-
Out of the modellers i have heard, Vox sounds pretty damn good.
-
I have no idea about comparing the models you are looking at.I have a friend who has a GT8 and it was very very good and he is a pro player. I can see your point about it providing the answer to your requirements. I have a multi f/x unit (Korg AX1500G) and I do use it for practice but prefer the sound of my amp (Laney VC30).Out of interest, I got the Korg as I play in a covers band and the range of sounds required makes it a practical compromise and I have a looper to remove it from the chain to use pure amp tone when required. Maybe at some point you could get a small valve amp and that, with whatever multi you get, will provide hours of fun.
-
owned the xt live...sold it to fund a tc G system..much happier because of the time based effects and filter on G system...did not use the modeler(can get there with my boog and marsh)more $$$, but it was well worth it for me- +1 for the xt live in terms of recording-I recently recorded a 15 song original cd and played a Taylor thru the XT Live and the sound was lush-many locals have commented on the tone-sounded a lot more complex than what it was(acoustic-------unit-----boss dig recorder)I havent been able to capture that exact tone since
-
I'd say the vox, it's the most natural sounding of the lot, at least for an amp sim & effects package.
-
i never agreed with multi effects thingys, especially Line 6 which are a but boring - no life to the sound.
i've heard great things about the Tonelab, but why ask us? i would never spend money based on other people's opinion.... try them out!
-
Eventide is coming out with two multi-effect stomp boxes, one delay and one modulation. I would use those over a BOSS or similar any day of the week. However, I've yet to try the Eventides. I plan on auditioning them soon!!
PS - They are expensive.
-
Vox Tonelab seems to be the best one for sound quality. For sheer amount of effects the GT-8 scoops the 1st place.
I would try out those two and just pick the one you like the most
-
I imagine the Eventides will have a hefty price tag to go along with the great sounds. :(
-
voted xt because of whole package upgradeable..and of course sound.....but if maudio blackbox or the linn audio adrenalinn(blackbox is based on it) then would have chosen them for sound
-
I will certainly be trying them all at a place that sells the same model amp as I have now to see how they hook it up as I think in the long term I'd have to change the amp as well to get the best out of it. This article is quite a long read but offers a tremendous insight into what's on the market. Sadly the article predates the Tonelab LE so it's the SE version that's tested here.
http://www.thestompbox.net/ViewArticle.aspx?ArticleID=21
To a degree it reinforces some of the comments made here though for the price it makes the GNX3000 look remarkably good with the amp models even rivalling the Tonelab.
-
I have a PodXT and a Digitech GNX4 - I find the PodXT much more user-friendly and the tones are great. Of course it doesn't sound like a row of boutique stompboxes through a Dumble Overdrive Special, but as we've discussed before unless you actually need a gigging amp and/or live in a soundproofed air hangar in the Highlands, so what?
The GNX4 sounds quite a lot more "artificial" to me, but to be fair I've never spent much time getting to grips with it. It was an ill-advised GAS purchase, to be honest. :oops:
I've never tried the GT-8 or Tonelabs so I can't really comment, but I have read a lot of very favourable reviews of the Vox units.
-
I pick the TonelabSE cuz of the organicness of the sounds. I had a GNX4 FOR ONE WEEK, PLAYED IT LIVE, AND IT DIDN'T SWITCH QUICK ENOUGH IN REAL TIME. It also sounded harshly trebly and digital with the the treble down to low as it would go. I have two bk equiped guitars, mind you. The vox has a lot of sweet clean mods, and I even get a decent metal chunk from an Apache bridge thru their recto mod. Tried the gt6, not the 8, but could never get the same sound twice. I had a zoom g7 ut, which was ok, but the cleans seemed louder than the dirties always. Good switching speed and Noise reduc. The tonelab's weakest link IS the noise reduc, but sounds loads more tubey than the Zoom w/ the tube. So my vote is for the tonelab.
-
I pick the TonelabSE cuz of the organicness of the sounds. I had a GNX4 FOR ONE WEEK, PLAYED IT LIVE, AND IT DIDN'T SWITCH QUICK ENOUGH IN REAL TIME. It also sounded harshly trebly and digital with the the treble down to low as it would go. I have two bk equiped guitars, mind you. The vox has a lot of sweet clean mods, and I even get a decent metal chunk from an Apache bridge thru their recto mod. Tried the gt6, not the 8, but could never get the same sound twice. I had a zoom g7 ut, which was ok, but the cleans seemed louder than the dirties always. Good switching speed and Noise reduc. The tonelab's weakest link IS the noise reduc, but sounds loads more tubey than the Zoom w/ the tube. So my vote is for the tonelab.
-
I also had the GNX and yes, it didn't switch quickly enough, bloody awful problem and I sold it very quickly.
-
For a while there I thought I'd have to change my amp as it doesn't have the usual send and return sockets for effects at the back, just the one instead. I had assumed that I'd need to connect to the back of the amp as if I went through the front, the preamp would colour the sound too much, however, I spoke to a guy yesterday who said that he regularly deals with Marshall amps direct and the advice that comes from their designers is to never use any kind of distortion effect through the effects loop; they must always go front end. Initially I wasn't too happy about this because all of the advice I've had so far tells me that if I go through the front end the preamp will colour the sound too much and destroy the effect I'm after, which is essentially overdriven to high gain valve amps at bedroom sound levels. He was now telling me that I couldn't go through the back either as the distortion destroys the connection! I don't see why that should be but he said he was just passing on what the designers of the amps had told him. He told me that he'd been playing for years and tried loads of gear and as long as I was going through the clean channel with all controls set to 12 O' clock then any colouring of the tone would be negligable to all but the most obsessive about their tone.
I wouldn't have thought that using a Pod XT Live through any solid state amp would colour the sound too much, though I can see how going through the front of a valve amp might. If this information is accurate, and I don't see why it shouldn't be, then I might as well get one of the multi FX units, run it through the front of my existing amp and then leave changing the amp until the end of its natural life and then maybe change it for a PA style system.
I will certainly try them side by side and I do intend to take my guitar and amp there on the day. I think it will boil down to where my priorities lie. I'm not really a huge effects junkie so a million different effects in a unit doesn't bother me, though a little chorus and delay etc. are nice - the usual suspects in fact. My main priority is to get a decent range of valve amp sounds at sensible bedroom levels as I fiddle around with things between BB King and Synyster Gates, though I mostly prefer the gain pushed up a bit. If the multi FX unit can give a good simulation of a high gain Dual Rectifier then I'm a good part of the way to where I want to be. If I had the room or played in a band then I'd simply get a good valve amp, shove a good distortion unit in front of it and maybe invest in a couple of decent stompboxes. Sadly I'm not in that position so I need an alternative and these modellers seem to offer an all in one solution that would suit my current situation but also be able to grow with me as my ability improves and possibly other opportunities present themselves.
I'm not sure if that clarification helps at all :D
-
Check out www.thestompbox.net and there is a shootout between them all.
-
Moddeled distortion and traditional distortion / overdrive / fuzz are different.
Very basically traditional pedals amplified the guitar signal using, transitors (germanium or silicon), opamps or a mixure of both. These componatns where pushed past the limits of that they could cleanly reproduce. Thereby producing a dirty sound.
A second effect was that they give a hefty kick to the input of the amp, therefore helping to create another layer of distortion. Often it's these two layers that help the signature tones that we all love
Modelling (and most of the disgital pedals), usually just emulate this process, and don't even give you a proper clean boost.
In times past you would (usually) put your distortion and tone based pedals (wah for example) into the input of the amp.
Anything using time based effects such as echo (surprise), reverb, chorus (phase and flange can be included here) would tend to go into an fx loop.
This (historical background) is probably where the Marshall recommendation is coming from.
Going in through a clean channel, with your eq set flat and no preamp gain will give you somthing quite neutral, though remember turning up the master volume on the amp will start to colour the sound (either through power amp distortion on a valve amp, or the clipping in the case of an SS amp). Needless to say the gain/preamp baing turned up wil colout it even more ;)
What amp are you planning to use ?
Rob...
-
It's a Crate GT65 solid state amp. I went with this amp because as a solid state I could use it at practical bedroom levels but it was powerful enough to use reasonably effectively if the opportunity to gig came along. My interest in one of these multi FX units is based on the same principle really. It's quite cost effective, gives my a range of valve type tones at sensible volumes, a wide range of effects to try out but is also sophisticated enough that I won't simply outgrow it in the near future.
-
have podxt for sale and fcb1010 midi controller to control it
-
only effect pedal i use is the digitech hendrix experience pedal and that kicks ass!! :twisted: great fuzz and wah plus a load of crazy effects!
not exactly as versatile as the mentioned pedals though :cry:
in guitar mags when theyre transcribing on the cd they always use th pod? they must rate it well if they always use it :wink:
-
I must confess, that does make perfect sense
-
If it's any help I have the ME-50, and while not the best tone - It's super sturdy, super user friendly and definetly does the job - Amazing for live use, but not great for tone nazi studio recording :p
-
Today I tried the Pod XT Live; Boss GT8 and Tonelab LE side by side and thought I'd let you know how I got on.
Pod XT Live
I expected alot more from this unit as it appears to be very popular but I was tremendously disappointed. With some work I could coax some decent tones out of it but overall the sound was extremely processed and digital. This was fine for extreme Metal where the lack of genuine valve tone wasn't as important to my ear but as soon as the gain was backed off it was terrible. This is a unit I will not be buying.
Boss GT8
There were pros and cons for this one. On the plus side you had absolutely loads of amp models and millions of effects. You also had the option of A and B channels so you could switch between amp models on a single patch. Something many people might like is the extent to which you can adjust parameters for every aspect of the sound. You could also manipulate the effects chain to suit yourself. Quite impressive tones were available for most of the models and with 46 different amp models that was impressive.
On the down side, there were so many effects I started wondering just how many I'd actually use! Being able to adjust everything is fine but against that it becomes very fiddly and I'd like to play my guitar instead of spend the rest of my life adjusting settings. No doubt I'd get used to it and being a guy, all those gadgets are VERY tempting. I think I'd have to keep it a long time before I outgrew it. The sound wasn't as bad as the Pod and in many cases was very impressive but it was still clearly processed.
Overall I liked this one alot. It offered endless possibilities and some very decent models but in a way, it seems too much. I think that for most guitarists it would be 90% unused.
Vox Tonelab LE
Compared to the GT8 this is severely limited. It only uses 16 amp models instead of 46; it has only 120 available patches instead of 340; you don't have the dual amp function; it has a fraction of the effects and you can't manipulate the effects chain. Furthermore, if extreme Metal is your thing, you may find it a little limited in its range. On paper it gives away a hell of a lot to the GT8 but that is to ignore the Vox's 'ace in the hole' - the real valve preamp. All I can say is that this thing really does work. I'd been impressed with the available tones on the GT8 but the Vox is awesome in the way it can reproduce a valve tone. I know that the purists out there will tell me it's still nowhere near as good as a real tube amp but that's not the point. Whereas other units claim to reproduce valve tones, the Tonelab genuinely does it, the UK 80s amp model (presumably a Marshall stack) being particularly impressive. I've read lots of reviews saying that this can't do Metal but that simply isn't true. It has its limits certainly but you'd have to be looking at playing very extreme Metal before this let you down. The effects are limited but you do have various distortions, Chorus; Compression; Phaser; Flanger; Delay and Reverb. How much more than that do any of us really need?
To me the real question is, do I want the endless possibilities presented by the GT8 or the superb tone of the Tonelab? At the moment I'm 90% in favour of the Tonelab but I'm going to sit on it a while and try them both again at the end of the month to see if I still feel the same and then I'll make my purchase. I'll keep you posted.
-
Well as yourself the question, in reality how many patches will you actually require.
After 4 years of owning a Korg pandora, I only have about 10 patches that I actually use, though I will tweak some of the values now and again.
I would suggest looking around for the m-audio black box as it's damned good (and fairly cheap atm) http://www.m-audio.com/index.php?do=products.list&ID=guitar
I agree with you regarding the Line 6 for Metal mayhem it works, but for just about everything else it dosn't really manage to convince anybody.
Vox use the so called "Valve reactor" which effectively treats the valve as being in the power amp section. This seem to help them sound a little more authentic than other companys products. Infact their emulation sounds better than the Marshall AVT series (and they are only supposed to sound like a Marshall), which uses a valve in the preamp section.
I would suggest going for what sounds best to your ears, and not worry to much about the number of features.
Let us know what you choose
-
I think I am very much in agreement with you, hence I think it will be the Vox. I'm going away at the weekend and will try the units again on the 23rd when I know I will be at a place that stocks both. The more I think about it, the more the Vox appeals for that real tube tone. Assuming I don't overspend on holiday I'll buy it then. The only drawback is then I'll feel duty bound to post some clips of the Cold Sweat set that I use and my playing really is cr@p :(
-
I think I am very much in agreement with you, hence I think it will be the Vox. I'm going away at the weekend and will try the units again on the 23rd when I know I will be at a place that stocks both. The more I think about it, the more the Vox appeals for that real tube tone. Assuming I don't overspend on holiday I'll buy it then. The only drawback is then I'll feel duty bound to post some clips of the Cold Sweat set that I use and my playing really is cr@p :(
It's so easy to say, but when you are in a shop and you are thinking, this has so many more options (or at least flashing lights and knobs), it's easy to ignore the, one that sounds better.
I think it's called pre purchase optimism
It's also a good idea to take some time away from the prospective items, before actually purchasing (why do the rest of us never do that).
I'ms still waiting for some money so as I can buy a set of pickups, and I will definately be getting somebody else to play on any clips my guitar produces.
-
I've had the GT-8 since 2005 and have never regreted it (well, only at first for a couple mins, when I was lost lol) , had used alot of others that wore out due to attrition and other factors but I think this one will be with me a long time.
About the number of effects and how many you'd actually use...well it's kinda like the gun philosophy...rather have it and not need it than to need it and not have it.
I get by on most gigs only using a couple patches but even those cover Rock-Jazz (I'm in a jazz trio) and Country. I run it thru a Marshall VS-8040 and sometimes the PA system in clubs, works fantastic either way.
If anyone doubts that one of these can't sound great they should listen to some clips of Robert Marcello on You Tube, pretty good I'd say, even tho he's not getting as good a sound out of it as I think he could.
I've used it on every recording I've done since 2005 and have really come to depend on it's versitility, I think all of those units in the poll are quite good but the versatility factor of the GT-8 did it for me, not only that...the longer you have one the better you learn how to make it sound. It can be quite a complicated lil monster.
I can hardly wait to put a bare knuckle thru it!! :lol:
-
since distortion is generally the weak point of these units, how about a versatile tube distortion pedal, running into the MFX, which would handle verb, delay, chorus etc. as generally digital does a better impression of these than it does an overworked valve?
-
yeah did the buy the one with most on(podxt) but now bought the one on sound...the Tonelab le
-
since distortion is generally the weak point of these units, how about a versatile tube distortion pedal, running into the MFX, which would handle verb, delay, chorus etc. as generally digital does a better impression of these than it does an overworked valve?
Many people have done that thru the loop of the GT-8 using a Damage Control ( womanizer..etc) and other units involving tubes with good results. I personaly don't have any problem with the Distortions in the 8 , I guess because I'm not using extreme gain and distortion like many do, and that seems to be where the "fizz" and aliasing will come into play.
-
n00b question: if you were using a multi fx pedal just for wah, boosting, delay etc into a tube amp doing the main overdrive
would the tonelab still benefit from having it's tube, I'm guessing it would but I don't want to speculate
-
n00b question: if you were using a multi fx pedal just for wah, boosting, delay etc into a tube amp doing the main overdrive
would the tonelab still benefit from having it's tube, I'm guessing it would but I don't want to speculate
Great question really, I'm not familiar with the Tonelab specifically but I believe your reasoning is correct, it's not unlike adding a tubed device into the loop of an MFX as I mentioned in a previous post and then running all of that into a tube amplifier....I personaly feel that a tube anywhere in the signal path is going to make a difference but I'm also sure that it amounting to a preamp tube that it's effect on the overall sound is arguable for some, where others will notice the difference..I happen to be one of the others ( lol).
For instance I have a Marshall VS8040 that came with a single ECC83 preamp tube that I switched for the U.S. equivalent 12AX7 of a different brand (Sylvania NOS) and I could tell immediatley from hearing and feel that it smoothed it out and took some of the "harshness" out of that channel (the tube only works in the boost channel) that it originaly had.
-
Well, I've tried the GT8 and Tonelab again and I do now have a slightly better understanding of each unit but the more I discover the more difficult it seems to become.
Despite what some of the sales guys say pushing the GT8, there is no doubt in my mind that the Vox has the superior tube tone. There is so much you can alter with the GT8 that it is certainly possible to get some excellent sounds from it but the classic rock sound of a Marshall stack that the Vox does so well is always that little bit more sterile.
That would suggest that I am still on course to get the Vox and I may still do that but in playing with the Vox a bit more there seems to me to be a rather daft fault with it. Because of the way the unit is arranged it is impossible to have a Wah effect and Overdrive/Distortion effects operating at the same time. To me, distortion options are so important that they should have their own section. Either I'm missing something in the way the Vox operates or you must have to use either an external Wah or distortion pedal through the Tonelab's f/x loop. To me that defeats the purpose of having a unit like this as it is supposed to be an 'all in one' solution. Can you really get enough distortion just from the amp models without using a distortion pedal feature?
I've read at HC that many GT8 users swear by something called a RadTone Harmonic Converger but I'm unsure exactly what it does, where you'd get one from or how much it would cost. If anyone knows I'd love to hear your thoughts. Would it make the GT8 sound more realistically tube-like? Alternatively, is there anything else I can do to give it a more realistic tube tone?
-
@Doadman, I understand your concerns, the GT-8 however will allow you to put any effect anywhere in the chain, unlike most MFX's, you wouldn't have a problem with the wah.
Concerning the HC, radley (Hockingsmith) is Neal Diamond's guitar player (more than 20 years now) and inventor of the Harmonic converger, I don't own one of these myself (would love one, can't afford it, around $200 U.S.) and the device does all that it claims, Ive heard clips and read reviews of 2 years and yes..it does impart a "tubelike" sound to the GT-8 and makes "tweaking" the sound for patches less tedious by all accounts.
It is possible to get a very good sound out of just the preamps in the 8 without using the od/distortion pedal sims.
There are some alternative EQ's and methods posted at GT Central in lue of using the HC, but only an HC will get that particular sound that it is known for, it is after all an analog device and the GT-8 is digital, that isn't to say that you couldn't put a tube driven unit into the loop section to achieve similar results but the HC is truly one of a kind and he makes them to your specs. you can find him here:> http://bossgtcentral.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=152
Don't give up on the Tonelab tho unless you're dead certain, many people have been extremely happy with that unit.
-
I personaly feel that a tube anywhere in the signal path is going to make a difference but I'm also sure that it amounting to a preamp tube that it's effect on the overall sound is arguable for some, where others will notice the difference..I happen to be one of the others ( lol).
The difference with the Vox moddeling is that the tube is NOT used within the preamp stage, it's used within the emulated power amp. From the demos here (and playing about in my local music shop) they do seem to be onto something better than the competition
I spent a while last week playing with a couple of zoom units, and like the marshall and other units that (allege to) use valve in their preamps, they are fizzy. Fizzy in the same way as the Marshall AVT that I have at home (and never use). I also find the digitech, boss and Line6 units very fizzy.
However other people are happy with them, and the other companys seem to throw more effects in than the Vox
For straight amp emulaton I find the vox (& korg) units to be ahead of the competition but thats only a personal view (but from hunters and steves clips it seems that many others seem to agree)
-
it is after all an analog device and the GT-8 is digital,
Wait wait wait - What?!
is this really true?
So they have a hundred mini circuits in there? I thought the sounds were generated in microchips and then sent through the tube - Are you telling me that every sound is generated with transistors and capacitors?
-
I personaly feel that a tube anywhere in the signal path is going to make a difference but I'm also sure that it amounting to a preamp tube that it's effect on the overall sound is arguable for some, where others will notice the difference..I happen to be one of the others ( lol).
The difference with the Vox moddeling is that the tube is NOT used within the preamp stage, it's used within the emulated power amp. From the demos here (and playing about in my local music shop) they do seem to be onto something better than the competition
I spent a while last week playing with a couple of zoom units, and like the marshall and other units that (allege to) use valve in their preamps, they are fizzy. Fizzy in the same way as the Marshall AVT that I have at home (and never use). I also find the digitech, boss and Line6 units very fizzy.
However other people are happy with them, and the other companys seem to throw more effects in than the Vox
For straight amp emulaton I find the vox (& korg) units to be ahead of the competition but thats only a personal view (but from hunters and steves clips it seems that many others seem to agree)
Wonderful!..glad you're pleased with the unit :) ...yes..I did say a tube anywhere in the signal path and that includes the post preamp, which is also possible with the GT-8 if one were to choose that option...doesn't seem that many do tho, although for playing live I can run it thu an all tube amp and achieve the same results.
I've heard great soundclips of the Vox and have done recordings with other guitarists (collaborations) that use them...Vox makes a fine product.
-
Well, I've read the reviews on the net about the RadTone device and the only other product I've ever seen with such positive reviews is Bare Knuckle pups!! I've also e-mailed them and it seems that the Harmonic Converger does indeed make the GT8 sound significantly more tube-like, putting it into the same area as the Vox. Unfortunately, neither unit now offers the 'all in one' solution I was after. If I go for the Vox I will probably end up having to get additional pedals to give me more versatility and with the GT8 I'll need to save for the RadTone to improve the tube tone.
My initial feeling right now is that the GT8 looks a better long term buy and the nearest to an 'all in one' option.
-
Had my DigiTech GNX3000 guitar workstation for 8 months now and so far haven't regretted buying it for a minute. At both bedroom and stage volumes the amp,cab and effects models sound excellent, especially in stereo.
I use a Boss Micro BR recorder as a note pad for ideas when I'm getting creative at home and the reproduction straight out of the GNX3000 make my Nailbombs really sound the mutts nuts.
Same goes for recording onto a computer..the included software enables the GNX3000 to act as the soundcard..so no latency problems.
I audtioned the GNX3000 alongside a GT-8 before I bought it and prefered it in every respect....ease of use, ease of getting excellent tones and the overall sound, though of course what makes for great tone is very much down to personal taste but the GNX3000 does everything well..from death metal to chicken pickin and even the factory presets are usable straight out of the box.
I'd say at least try one before you decide which way to jump...... and best of all...the GNX3000 is now available for under 200 quid. 8)
-
Do you know, I'd forgotten all about the GNX3000!
I had originally discounted it because so many people seemed to coplain about the delays involved in moving between patches, even on the more expensive GNX4. As you mention stage volumes I assume that you play it live so presumably you've found it to be no big deal. I don't play in a band right now but you never know what the future may hold so I thought it was a non-starter. I've just reread a comparison with the GT8, Tonelab and XTL (I posted the link earlier) and it actually comes out very well indeed. I'm going to have a final try with the GT8 and Tonelab tomorrow so I'll see if the stock a GNX3000 as well and see how it compares side by side.
-
The GNX is a great buy and another excellent unit and by all accounts that I've read quite a bit easier to be "up and running" whereas the GT-8 has a considerable learning curve to get started with.
The fact that you wouldn't be gigging live makes a difference too, that's where most will make up their mind ultimately between one or the other unit, some like the versitility that the GT affords but many will go with the GNX (or similar) for simplicity sake..not to mention that the GNX sounds great..I've heard many good clips of that one myself.
-
Well, I'm not as far forward as I'd hoped and that is because the only place I could find that was stocking a GNX seemed to have no idea how to use it! When I first plugged my guitar in using a Marshall JCM800 model it just sounded like a bag of angry wasps. I left and went back a couple of hours later with my own amp to give them a chance to read the manual. That did improve matters but it still sounded like a very processed signal, unlike the Vox. As Guitarist magazine gave it 5 stars I assume that I simply haven't heard it at its best. I did, however, hear enough to convince me that it is as good as the Boss and as it's the thick end of a hundred quid cheaper so that's the Boss out of the equation. There was certainly that latency people talk about between patches and it was mildly annoying but realistically, I'm a bedroom player so it's hardly the end of the world.. Overall I thought that the lo-gain tones and the Hi-gain sounds were pretty good given the ineptitude of the sales staff. Pinched harmonics were really leaping out all over the place when I played Hi-gain. It seemed like I just thought 'pinched harmonic' and there it was. It was that Mashall JCM800 model that has really made me stop and think. To me that is exactly the amp where I want that warm tube sound and it was exactly where the unit sounded most artificial and processed. Given all I've read about the GNX it was a big disappointment but as I said, it may be due to the sales staff not knowing what they are doing.
I then went and tried the Vox again. God that UK80s model is fantastic! So warm and tube-like. As for the problem of High Gain, I tried the US Hi-gain model without any pedals at all and just pushed the gain on the amp model. It turned out OK, though I had both controls pushed hard to get that and I think the tone would have been improved if I'd backed off on the amp gain but added a distortion pedal, which of course would preclude the use of a Wah effect.
Now comes the crunch. I KNOW the Vox is really good at reproducing valve tone and I can get one for £247 but I suspect that to really get great Hi-gain sonds from it, at some point I will probably have to invest in a good distortion pedal to go with it. The alternative is to take a chance on the GNX3000. The reviews are excellent and it got that 5 star award from Guitarist magazine so there must be some great sounds in there, it's just that I couldn't access them in the time I had. If I go that route it will have to be, to a degree, a leap of faith as I simply trust what others have said. Having said that, it is only £169 online and that saving may open up other alternatives. With the difference I could buy the MFX Supermodels or I could maybe try a Harmonic Converger on it. Would it be possible to use some kind of valve preamp with it to warm up the signal? I've heard that done on a Roland Cube before and it was improved dramatically. The fact is the shop I tried is the only one around here that seems to stock Digitech products and they didn't really know how it worked. I think what I need is someone who knows a GNX3000 well and has also tried the Tonelab so they can advise me if the GNX can get close to the tube-like tone achieved by the Tonelab or would know if any of the ideas I mentioned might work. Is there such a person out there?
-
(lol) I've written this on a number of forums that I attend, but judging an MFX unit on presets or a badly set-up patch can really give a false impression of what any of the units can ultimately do...give me 5 minutes with the AXE-FX (hottest and most expensive on the market ATM) and I guarantee you that I can manipulate a patch in it to sound so horrible as to make one choose a Zoom 505 (not to slight that one) over it (lol)..of course the presets in the AXE-FX unit are good right off the bat, but I'm just using that as an illustration.
It took me a few days before I was really comfortable with the knowledge that the GT-8 could do what I wanted and more. I'd have to give the other units an equal amount of time before I dismissed them altogether.
If you'll go to the StompBox.net, there are a number of users there who can give you quite a bit more info on that unit than I can. They're located here> http://forum.thestompbox.net/index.php
More specifically..there is a "head to head" shoot-out (article) between these models here> http://forum.thestompbox.net/showthread.php?t=5765 at the same forum that may give you a better idea.
-
Have to agree regarding the preset issue
Most of the presets are really overdone (for want of a better term) and I assome is used to catch peoples attention when they are browsong in a shop.
I tend to turn off all effects and just go with a pure amp model if I can get a few minutes alone with the FX unit, I always turn off the speaker emulation if I am going through anything other than headphones.
As for patch switching usually theres some sort of channel switching (for want of a better term) to switch between 2 presets much quicker than normal.
I find the US magazines love the Digitech unit, but I find so many US guitarists sound processed (and I dont like that). Hence I tend to have a dislike of Line6 products. I believe Philly has a GNX 3000, give him a shout as (although he denys it) he does know a good tone when he hears it.
As for distortion pedals well you will probably find one that you like the sound of and stick that infront of any moddeler that you buy anyway, so don't get too hung up on that. Vox, digitech or whatever it will happen eventually (same with the wah most likely)
I would still suggest looking at the m-audio Black Box, as with the V2 pack (a free upgrade) it has some good high gain models
http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/MAudioBlackBox-focus.html. Ignore the price listed above as £75 quid is the going price ATM (http://www.turnkey.co.uk/web/productAction.do?dispatch=showProduct&SKU=MMAN-BLACKBOX&context=WEB)
In saying last week I spent more time with the Amplitube Hendrix package (using the m-audio box as the audio interface). Damn now I have to buy an expression pedal I just saw on the Turnkey site :(
-
Hmm maybe I have american tone tastes :roll: but I find most of the patch presets on the GNX3000 quite usable and a good starting point for tweaking to your own preferences and I absolutely love my Line6 Echo Park which I use stereo in from the GNX for expanded delay options. I then go from that to the stereo effects loop return on my Marshall AVT275, bypassing the preamp and just using the clean grunt of the stereo power amp.
And Doadman, don't be put off by inept sales staff. One of the GNX3000s greatest strengths is its sheer tweakability. Yes there's a slight delay when switching patches but no more so than switching individual stomp boxes on and off and if like me you don't tend to switch complete patches within a song then you won't find it a problem. I prefer to have my GNX set so I can switch the effect modules within a patch during a song.....say bringing in a chorus or flanger and adding fuzz or overdrive. When you switch the modules within a patch on or off, theres no delay at all.
Goodluck with whatever you decide to go with
-
P.S. at £169 you've got to be laughing :wink:
-
Hmm maybe I have american tone tastes :roll: but I find most of the patch presets on the GNX3000 quite usable and a good starting point for tweaking to your own preferences
And Doadman, don't be put off by inept sales staff. One of the GNX3000s greatest strengths is its sheer tweakability. Yes there's a slight delay when switching patches but no more so than switching individual stomp boxes on and off and if like me you don't tend to switch complete patches within a song then you won't find it a problem.
Goodluck with whatever you decide to go with
Well my experience was 10 minutes in a shop with the factory presets, I just found it a little too artificial (but nowhere near as bad as Line6 or Zoom though). Also the morph function screwed me up when I just tried to get a straight amp emulation.
The rest of my thoughts where from american guitar magazines, where I just found their settings totally over cooked (compared with their UK equivalents)
What you say about the switching within the patch was what I meant about channel switching
Rob...
-
Whatever you do trust your ears first, your purse (well..your wallet) will surely follow :lol: Looking forward to knowing which you decide on and hope it meets all your needs.
-
I didn't feel that the GT8 justified its price premium of almost £80 because the quality of the amp models seemed similar and while it had some cool features, the GNX also had some alternative cool features to compensate. There is the issue of lag between patches and I admit that is annoying, especially as none of the other units have the same problem and the GNX claims to be a pro unit. Nevertheless, I've assumed that as I don't play in a band it isn't worth the extra money to eliminate the problem and I will learn to live with it in the same way that I'd have to learn to live with the limitations of the Tonelab. It also seems a reasonable point that to drastically change sounds using banks of stompboxes, that would also take a little time while I did my Riverdance impression. Having never used a wide range of stompboxes I may be wrong in this assumption.
On another forum I spoke to a guy who was using a GNX with a Harmonic Converger and that was a real bonus, even if he hadn't directly compared it to the Tonelab. While he didn't say that it gave it more of a tube tone, I assume that is what he meant when he said that it brought the sounds to life. That is very interesting, partly because I have felt a little sceptical about the HC and partly because a key part of the equation for me is budget. In a straight fight the GNX may give away a few things to the GT8 and Tonelab but the way I'm looking at it is that for about £250 I can have either of those units and for about £270 I can have the GNX WITH a Harmonic Converger. If the HC is as good as people say it is then surely that represents a very good buy.
Based on this reasoning I am inclined to take a chance on the GNX3000. I won't order it until later today or maybe tomorrow morning just in case anyone wants to tell me I'm either crazy and made fundamental mistakes in my reasoning or that it's a good choice. Please feel free to comment, it all helps a great deal.
-
..in case anyone wants to tell me I'm either crazy and made fundamental mistakes in my reasoning..
not at all, not from me anyway...sounds like it'll be a good combination for you and I hope that it is.
As for the HC, I've never heard or read a complaint on it..anywhere. It would be a first.
I would heartily suggest that when ordering your HC that you tell Radley that it will be used with a GNX, he'll know how to make the appropriate one for it then, there are several ways to make one for the GT-8 (loop/non-loop-stereo/mono) because of its ability to insert anything anywhere in the chain of effects whereas some (MFX) units cannot do this.
-
The Digitech GNX 3000 arrived first and my initial impressions wewre that I was impressed. There are loads of features on it and the 'warp' feature opens up endless possibilities when it comes to creating patches. There are some awful sounding presets there but overall I found them surprisingly good. As expected, the softer tones are excellent, mild distortion is good, as is normal overdive but not on a par with the Tonelab. Hi-gain is the best I tried on a modeller but still far too digital. Nevertheless, it gives me all the variety I need and I have no doubt I made the right choice. While there is clear latency when moving between patches it is surprisingly easy to work around that. Most GNX users opt for the 'Stompbox' mode where there is no lag at all so it only causes a minor problem on the very rare occassions that you need major changes in sound very quickly. Not worth the thick end of £100 in my opinion.
The Harmonic Converger arrived only a day after the GNX, which is remarkably fast from America. I was a mighty relieved man when it worked because plenty of people had me doubting it. I even doubted my own ears so I asked various people to listen and didn't tell them when the HC was on. Every single one could tell the difference. There are certainly things that Radley claims that are true and I think other aspects of his design he makes the most of.
1) Is it simple to use?
God yes. If you can't use a HC then you must be severely brain damaged. His instructions were very much focussed on the GT8 so I had to e-mail him to know how to hook it up to the GNX. As it turned out it was easy: Out of the GNX through the headphone socket and into the HC; out of the HC and into the amp. Easy. One control to worry about and you simply turn it until the tone is right. I found between 40-50% was perfect. If you pushed it too hard the sound seemed to start disintegrating again.
2) Does it reduce 'fizz'?
Yes. Eliminates it completely to my untrained ear. I tried it on the Dimebag patch as that is very hi-gain and seemed to be very 'fizzy', though you could tell there was a good sound there trying to get out. HC switched on to about 45% and the patch was utterly transformed. It was just so smooth sounding in the way it delivered the distortion.
3) Does it make the amp models sound more valve-like?
This is slightly trickier. The simple answer is yes, it does. My GNX now seems to have a valve-like tone that is only rivalled by the Tonelab and on hi-gain models there is no other modeller that comes even close. I tried plenty of these multi FX units and all the hi-gain models were way too digital and fizzy but with the HC hooked up it really sounds the dog's danglies; VERY realistic. Radley seems to suggest that it is his HC that does this but I'm not so sure. Perhaps it does but it seems equally plausible to me that by eliminating the fizz his HC is simply allowing the amp model that was already there to really shine through. Perhaps it's a bit picky of me as the bottom line is that it does sound far more like a real valve amp now.
Bottom line? I'm VERY happy with my purchase. The Digitech GNX3000 is a fantastic piece of kit if you want an 'all in one solution' but with a Harmonic Converger attatched to it, it is simply unbeatable. I just wouldn't use the GNX without the Harmonic Converger now as the sounds are just terrible in comparison. If you use any kind of modeller then I would have no hesitation in saying that the HC will greatly improve your tone.
-
HEy, I'm glad to hear that you ended up with the right setup.
Of course you know the next thing people will start saying don't you
Can we have some examples please ;)
I was also wondering if there is any difference in fizz if you record directly to PC (via USB) in the fizz stakes compared with the Digitech going straight into an amp or headphones ?
-
HEy, I'm glad to hear that you ended up with the right setup.
Of course you know the next thing people will start saying don't you
Can we have some examples please ;)
I was also wondering if there is any difference in fizz if you record directly to PC (via USB) in the fizz stakes compared with the Digitech going straight into an amp or headphones ?
This>> http://forum.thestompbox.net/showthread.php?t=5838 thread might answer your question. I believe it'd be a "yes" (with a TLSE anyway).
-
I think the POD XT Live is the best multi fx out of your list, they are amazing. I used to use the Boss GT3, which absolutley kicked ass in so many ways! Multi fx are a great studio tool. I've found the GT8 to be way too complex for my taste. I sold the Gt3 to get seperate pedals, which I now prefer, but it's took time to get all the pedals I want, seperate pedals seem better sound quality and are more unique.
-
Good to hear you're enjoying your GNX3000 Doadman and I'm glad I reminded you about them. I'm sure that with some in depth editing of your own patches you'll find that the GNX3000 is capabale of some fabulous tones even without your HC. Personally I've never found mine to have a problem with "fizz" and I wonder if the AlnicoV Nailbombs on my RGT42 might make for less fizz than the ceramic ColdSweats on yours.
I also don't use the preamp section of my amp mainly because I find it adds too much of its own "colour" to the amp,cab and effects models I've created on the GNX and also it's not stereo as mentioned in a previous post.
The preamp stage on my Marshall AVT275 certainly adds fizz and colour.
Personally I've never been especially bothered about getting a realistic valve tone , prefering instead to get the tone that's perfect (in my opinion) for whatever I'm playing at the time regardless of whether it sounds like it's amplified by a valve, transistor or wax cylinder played through an ear trumpet. :P But horses for courses
For an ever bigger stereo sound I use a much maligned and forgotten tool......a 31 band stereo graphic equalizer. Stereo out fron the GNX straight into that and a studio spec stereo power amp to two 2x12 cabs.
I normally use the equalizer set flat and only tweak individual frequencies if the acoustics of a particular room require it.
Anyway have fun with the GNX3000 and HC Looking forward to some sound clips.