Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum

Forum Ringside => Guitars, Amps and Effects => Topic started by: Twinfan on May 25, 2007, 01:00:13 PM

Title: Hidden treasure - uncovered!
Post by: Twinfan on May 25, 2007, 01:00:13 PM
Just seen this posted over on the Les Paul Forum and thought it might interest some of you!

* Guy owns a '57 reissue Goldtop Les Paul
* Sees flamed maple through the gold paint
* Feels like a change and decides to have the top refinished in faded sunburst

Why did Gibson decide to cover this top up?  The guitar came back looking like this  :o  :o  :o  :o  :o  :o  :o

(http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w250/burstguitars/P1010023.jpg)
Title: Hidden treasure - uncovered!
Post by: LazyNinja on May 25, 2007, 01:22:27 PM
Wow that's gorgeous  :drool: :o

You'd think they would use plain tops for solid colours. Maybe this one got mixed up at the factory?
Title: Hidden treasure - uncovered!
Post by: WezV on May 25, 2007, 01:31:38 PM
maybe there was a flaw in the finish/wood and gibson decided it was more economical to add a solid colour and sell it as a gold-top rather than spend the time completely stripping and refinishing the guitar.
Title: Hidden treasure - uncovered!
Post by: Philly Q on May 25, 2007, 01:39:59 PM
That's exactly what happened in the old days, apparently.  I've read that there are dishonest folks out there stripping '50s goldtops, refinishing them and selling them as sunbursts.

It does seem weird that they'd still do it today, though, when manufacturers are so keen on keeping costs down.

That's a really nice guitar, isn't it?  They did a lovely job refinishing it.  :D
Title: Hidden treasure - uncovered!
Post by: blue on May 25, 2007, 01:54:18 PM
i remember seeing a Hamer Standard (explorer shape) in a collector's articlle in a guitar magazine.  it was originally black but when the owner had it stripped he discovered a spectacular flamed maple top underneath!

i suppose we'll all be spending the weekend trying to see through our solid coloured guitars now, eh? :wink:
Title: Hidden treasure - uncovered!
Post by: Twinfan on May 25, 2007, 02:09:13 PM
It's one of the nicest tops I've ever seen.  I'm not a fan of perfectly symmetrical and aligned stripes - the character on that one is fantastic...
Title: Hidden treasure - uncovered!
Post by: horsehead on May 25, 2007, 02:30:21 PM
how...beautiful....I love guitars
Title: Hidden treasure - uncovered!
Post by: Kilby on May 25, 2007, 02:42:18 PM
From what I have read, it's a not uncommon event, Tom Hall (owner of Rickenbacker) said it's usually plainer wood that gets used for solid colour finishes.

If they are doing a run of highly figured guitars and and they have to produce a plain colour guitar in the middle of that batch, the odds are that they will just finish the figured top with the solid colour, as they try not to have bodies sitting around unused. Eggle and a few other builders have said similar things in the past

Theres a couple of wonderful fancy maple tops discovered under solid colours over at http://www.patrickeggleguitars.org/

Rickenbacker as mentioned often do the same.

Rob...
Title: Hidden treasure - uncovered!
Post by: Philly Q on May 25, 2007, 02:44:01 PM
Quote from: blue
i suppose we'll all be spending the weekend trying to see through our solid coloured guitars now, eh? :wink:

Ooops.  Plywood.  :(
Title: Hidden treasure - uncovered!
Post by: WezV on May 25, 2007, 03:05:26 PM
That sounds quite likely - its all about keeping the production flow going.  But i am not sure that would be as much an issue for Gibson.  Patrick Eggle and Rickenbaker are relatively small businesses that may get a custom order in half-way through a production batch - then it makes sense to alter the colour of a production model.  Gibson are a much bigger factory with a dedicated custom shop that probably would be less willing to make changes in the middle of a production batch - but i could be wrong, there are loads of unusual and confusing guitars out there because factories have a few spare bits left over

Quote from: Philly Q

It does seem weird that they'd still do it today, though, when manufacturers are so keen on keeping costs down.
 :D


Its cheaper and quicker to cover mistakes with a solid finish than it is to fix them properly like would have been done when it was refinished.  Especially when you consider that gibson employs 'finishers'  on its production line rather than 're-finishers', re-finishing can take a whole different set of skills and needs more training.  Its a better option than sending the guitar through the bandsaw when it has a slight cosmetic flaw.

Also dont be fooled into thinking Gibson payed much money for that maple top
Title: Hidden treasure - uncovered!
Post by: Mr Ed on May 25, 2007, 03:20:28 PM
That. Is. GORGEOUS!!

Yet further proof that Gibson are morons.
Title: Hidden treasure - uncovered!
Post by: Kilby on May 25, 2007, 03:23:35 PM
Quote from: WezV
That sounds quite likely - its all about keeping the production flow going.  But i am not sure that would be as much an issue for Gibson.  Patrick Eggle and Rickenbaker are relatively small businesses that may get a custom order in half-way through a production batch - then it makes sense to alter the colour of a production model.

Also dont be fooled into thinking Gibson payed much money for that maple top


Heh, ric are wierd at the best of times (they refuse to do custom models) plus the 2 year wait (probably in their case anyway it's more a case of somebody damaged an instrument in the final stages and they have to rush a replacement through).

A few of the companys I prefer (such as Hamer) probably have the same issues of production delays cost more than the wood.

Possibly another issue is probably the cost of the finishing process adds more to the guitar cost than the actual wood does.

I'd love to know what price Gibson pays for their wood, compared to the extra they charge.
Title: Hidden treasure - uncovered!
Post by: Twinfan on May 25, 2007, 03:40:56 PM
Another pic of the same guitar:

(http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w250/burstguitars/P1010012.jpg)
Title: Hidden treasure - uncovered!
Post by: dave_mc on May 25, 2007, 05:03:30 PM
haha, that's nicer than most of the LP standard tops i've seen...  :lol:
Title: Hidden treasure - uncovered!
Post by: noodleplugerine on May 25, 2007, 05:15:23 PM
Amazing lol.

That's one of the nicest Tops I've ever seen lol :S
Title: Hidden treasure - uncovered!
Post by: TomW on May 25, 2007, 05:20:07 PM
That looks brilliant :o
Title: Hidden treasure - uncovered!
Post by: WezV on May 25, 2007, 05:45:08 PM
Quote from: Kilby

I'd love to know what price Gibson pays for their wood, compared to the extra they charge.


So would i

a top like that thick enough to carve  a lp out of would probably set me back at least $100 - although some guitar wood sellers will put it up a lot higher than that.

i bet gibson are not paying anywhere near that much.
Title: Hidden treasure - uncovered!
Post by: Johnny Mac on May 25, 2007, 06:39:51 PM
Lovely looker! Hopefully my Feline LP will have a lovely finish like that, it's a 5A maple flame top with a honey burst  8)
Title: Hidden treasure - uncovered!
Post by: horsehead on May 25, 2007, 07:00:38 PM
Most Les Pauls I'd take the plate off, but that looks sooooo bad ass I'd leave it on
Title: Hidden treasure - uncovered!
Post by: 38thBeatle on May 25, 2007, 07:05:13 PM
That does look very very good.
Title: Hidden treasure - uncovered!
Post by: FELINEGUITARS on May 26, 2007, 02:02:21 AM
Quote from: Johnny Mac
Lovely looker! Hopefully my Feline LP will have a lovely finish like that, it's a 5A maple flame top with a honey burst  8)


Your stripes are thinner JM, but yes a lovely finish like that would be cool

Back in the day the flame top wasn't really made a fuss over (other than by owners who liked the look).

As it happens the LP standard wasn't supposed to have a maple top
Back in the day LP Customs were all mahogany - carved top but no maple
Gibson messed up on Les Paul's specs (according to Les Paul) and gave the maple cap to the cheaper guitar and left the custom all mahogany when it was supposed to be the other way round.

Customs kept the all mahogany construction till the late 60s
Title: Hidden treasure - uncovered!
Post by: Twinfan on May 26, 2007, 03:27:07 PM
I've always fancied an all 'hog LP Custom but I don't think Gibson make them any more.  May have to have one custom built at some point.
Title: LP Gold top
Post by: viking on May 26, 2007, 03:49:55 PM
Quote
I've read that there are dishonest folks out there stripping '50s goldtops, refinishing them and selling them as sunbursts.

.I own a 53 LP model,it had to be a Gold Top w/P90 but it's a cherry sunburst (almost orange) with original PAF's ! Thanks to those changes i was able to afford it at the time ! :D But the sunburst is not as beautiful as that one...(top is 3 pieces,i think).But the sound (tone) is unbelievable ... 8)
Title: Hidden treasure - uncovered!
Post by: sgmypod on May 26, 2007, 09:27:43 PM
am now gasing for another Lpaul type guitar
Title: Hidden treasure - uncovered!
Post by: LazyNinja on May 27, 2007, 01:18:50 AM
Quote from: Twinfan
I've always fancied an all 'hog LP Custom but I don't think Gibson make them any more.  May have to have one custom built at some point.


Tokai makes LP customs with all mahogany body. There's a dark cherry one on ebay right now.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/2007-TOKAI-MIJ-LC-85-CTM-Mahogany-Top-Wine-Red-NEW_W0QQitemZ330125218668QQihZ014QQcategoryZ112670QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Title: Hidden treasure - uncovered!
Post by: mecca777 on May 27, 2007, 12:30:12 PM
I'm wondering whether the tiny little mark that sits about 0.75" below the pickup selector switch was counted as enough of a flaw in the top that they sent it for a solid finish instead?

In any case, I'm glad that the owner had the courage to uncover it, because that looks like pretty much the perfect Les Paul Standard in my opinion. For some reason, I love the tight "holographic" ribbon flames often seen on PRS, Music Man and Hamer guitars, but not on a traditional Les Paul.
Title: Hidden treasure - uncovered!
Post by: WezV on May 28, 2007, 08:59:32 AM
Quote from: mecca777
I'm wondering whether the tiny little mark that sits about 0.75" below the pickup selector switch was counted as enough of a flaw in the top that they sent it for a solid finish instead?


If it was refinished by gibson because of a flaw it would have had to have been much worse than that - there quality control isnt exactly brilliant.  
I suppose that could be a CSI clue as to where a possible  larger flaw may have been

Its most likely that any flaw that may have been there was taken care of during the strip down and refinish - or that gibson had some entirely different reason for doing this that we will never figure out  - but i bet it comes down to money
Title: Hidden treasure - uncovered!
Post by: hunter on May 28, 2007, 09:18:40 AM
Quote from: blue
i suppose we'll all be spending the weekend trying to see through our solid coloured guitars now, eh? :wink:


I don't have any  :cry: