Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Pickups => Topic started by: hunter on May 26, 2007, 04:04:57 AM
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My only un-BKP'ed guitar is a Tokai strat (my first guitar ever), all maple neck, alder body, good resonance and >25 years old, so I guess it's a good starting point.
I am looking for a true strat sound, the one that is not perfectly rounded and smooth but rather chunky and edgy, with that special attack, sometimes hollowness and overall this awesome versatlility from just the way you pick the guitar.
Thomas Blug is a fantastic example of that sound, he goes all the way through so many different flavours by just switching pickup position or changing the attack on his 60s strat.
To get an idea check this out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LSqJbaBIfOY
Which pickups bring me close to that ideal (apart from practising my technique)? I guess it wouldn't probably be an overly hot set that gives me this?
I have zero strat experience so looking for some good advise.
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Hmmm Hunter you know what I am going to say don't you? Classic Strat tones- has to be Apaches in my view. They have it all as far as I am concerned. I really ought to find the time to do another Apache clip!
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Hmmm Hunter you know what I am going to say don't you? Classic Strat tones- has to be Apaches in my view.
Hahaha, that was as clear as I could predict Eric Hellstyle to say: Holy Diver!
Do you like Blug's sound? Do you really think it's Apaches, couldn't Mother's Milk get me there better?
Can Apaches also do a proper 70s/80s Gilmour?
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Remember that (whisper it) pickups are only part of the tone equation.....ALOT comes from fingers/amps etc....
However, that said, I can personally vouch for the fact that the Apaches are stunning pickups. I've had them in my strat for a year now and have played everything I can think of through them - they also record very well too. If you're going to be playing alot of heavier stuff, then they're possibly not the best choice (they lose a little definition at mega-gain levels) but for everything from clean to overdriven rock, to me they're the perfect strat sound.
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I think Sultans might work well for this too.
Damn, that H&K looks good.
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I should mind my own business, because I'm not a Strat guy and I don't own any BKP Strat pickups, but I think Blug's tone there is quite round and smooth. He never really gets twangy, spanky, clucky, quacky, glassy... all those terms they use for vintage Strat tones. It does sound like he's using a fair bit of processing and a "modern" amp of course.
I'd have thought you need pickups with a bit less brightness, less of an edge, a bit more warmth and sweetness. I always thought that meant '60s rather than '50s, but from the clips I've listened to the Apaches aren't at all lacking in warmth, in fact they seem rounder, a little more open and more dynamic than the MMs, maybe... the MMs are slightly more snarly and aggressive but the clean tones aren't as pretty.
So I'd say Apaches, but I don't really know what I'm talking about...
This is most definitely giving me Strat GAS, by the way.
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This is most definitely giving me Strat GAS, by the way.
I know what you mean, being a humbucker guy myself, I always aspire to the strat vibe, but don't really master it - it's actually a bit like learning a new instrument.
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Yeah, I go through phases of being into Strats and Teles, but I always come back to the Gibsons. I love the way Fenders sound, but I find them physically quite awkward to play - especially Strats, despite all the body contours!
Which isn't to say that I've "mastered" the Gibsons, of course. If only that were true.
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Yeah, I go through phases of being into Strats and Teles, but I always come back to the Gibsons. I love the way Fenders sound, but I find them physically quite awkward to play - especially Strats, despite all the body contours!
Which isn't to say that I've "mastered" the Gibsons, of course. If only that were true.
I know what you mean.. I find my strat much harder to play than my Les Paul :cry: It does sound great though.. maybe its the vintage radius fingerboard I dont like?
As for the original question, I dont really know, but I do like my Trilogy in the bridge, possibly not stratty enough for what you want though.
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Which isn't to say that I've "mastered" the Gibsons, of course. If only that were true.
Well, OK, maybe to master is a bit strong, so let's say be familiar with :)
As for the original question, I dont really know, but I do like my Trilogy in the bridge, possibly not stratty enough for what you want though.
Yeah Trilogy is tempting, it might feel comfortably humbuckish to play such a hot singlecoil, but I guess it would probably be too similar to the Axis or so ... I need to check some more clips of the Apaches now ...
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Which isn't to say that I've "mastered" the Gibsons, of course. If only that were true.
Well, OK, maybe to master is a bit strong, so let's say be familiar with :)
As for the original question, I dont really know, but I do like my Trilogy in the bridge, possibly not stratty enough for what you want though.
Yeah Trilogy is tempting, it might feel comfortably humbuckish to play such a hot singlecoil, but I guess it would probably be too similar to the Axis or so ... I need to check some more clips of the Apaches now ...
hmm well when you dig in it still sounds like a singlecoil, it has that glassiness to it, but still sounds very meaty under gain :) It even sounds good for cleans. I can recommend it for the bridge definitely, I didnt like it in the neck much though, at least with 250k pots.
When you say too similar to the Axis, do you mean the one you have Rebel Yells in? It sounds nothing like a bridge rebel yell :P
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ohhhhhhhhhhhhhh, this is so beautiful: http://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?p=106604
I want Apaches now .... or .... I think :oops:
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I think Apaches or Sultans would be the best choice. However, you could even get Irish Tours or Slow Hands for that sound as Blug almost never turns up the volume to full, only during some of the solo parts. Also, if your Strat doesn't have one yet, you should really try a treble bleed mod. In my Strat it's a 220K resistor and a .650 ?F cap in parallel, soldered between the two hot lugs of the volume pot. The mod makes the volume change more gradual and retains the high end shimmer of the sound as you turn the volume down, which is important IMO, if you want to clean up a really dirty channel without losing bite and character.
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Hi Hunter, I did like that clip of Blug-he certainly gets a great tone. I have just got in from a gig and the Apaches sounded exellent tonight-well aprt from my playing that is!
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Using a different amplifier has brought a whole new array of tones out of my Apache loaded Stratocaster, and has also changed the way I approach pickup selections etc. Tone from the fingers and the amp is so true as someone posted earlier - since getting a new amp, the guitar sings so much more and the quality of the BKP's really shines through.
Apaches are really good pickups.
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Pretty much set on Apaches now.
Final question to you strat specialists:
A. Reverse wound middle or normal wound?
B. Staggered pole pieces or flat?
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A. I have RWRP, and find that positions 2 and 4 are two of the sweetest tones I've heard anywhere. I think I'll always stick with RWRP now.
B. There's alot of talk around this subject, with alot of people saying that staggered poles don't work well with a flatter fretboard radius. My Apaches are staggered as when I first got them I had a 7.25" radius strat neck. I then moved up to a compound 10-16" radius Warmoth neck, and can tell no difference whatsoever. I emailed Tim with regard to this and he assured me the staggered pickups would be fine with the compound radius, and they were. That said, if you have a very flat radius all over, I can't see how a set of flat poles would be bad.
Hope that helps.
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I'd agree with Jordan Hunter both in respect of the RW/RP and with the staggering. I look forward to hearing what you think when you get them.
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Thanks a lot guys.
So RW/RP for those sweet in-between tones ... I agree, just hope they aren't much weaker than the singles solo.
As my fretboard is vintage with lots of radius, then it should probably be staggered ones.
Hmm, just something else came to my mind: anyone using a "tele switch"? Is that a very cool sound?
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tele switch is that so you can have neck and bridge together..if so got that and sounds cool...can have all 3 on at once as well
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tele switch is that so you can have neck and bridge together..if so got that and sounds cool...can have all 3 on at once as well
Is that using a push/pull pot to add the neck (or bridge) pickup to whatever's selected on the 5-way?
Apparently the Fender (Mexico) Classic Player '50s Strat is wired so you get neck+bridge in position 4 on the switch (position 2 is normal bridge+middle). I'd love to know how they do that.
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Hunter, yes I have a push/pull pot for bridge and neck together.Very usable-a little like the Tele mid position. I can get all three going but was warned that it isn't that great-probably better if the pups were in series. Lately, I have found myself using the bridge and neck quite a lot. I would say definitely go for it.
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I have a Rothwell Neck Adder blender pot - nicer than switch as you can as much or less neck as you want.
To my ears there are two sweet spots - 50% neck added and 90% - the 50% calms the bite of the bridge: it is where the telecaster middle tone is (as the tele bridge pickup is brighter than the Strats due to the brass plate) - 90% is a nice smooth 'tween' position tone - like the neck middle position but with a bit more treble - good for Hendrix cleans (eg. Wind Cries Mary) - all 3 pickups together is somewhat disappointing.
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Stewmac has a 5-way switch - Megaswitch E-model, I think - where the 3rd position is neck+bridge instead of the middle pickup.
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Stewmac has a 5-way switch - Megaswitch E-model, I think - where the 3rd position is neck+bridge instead of the middle pickup.
Well done Peter, I'd forgotten all about those Megaswitches! It is the E-model, I've got one in my spares box somewhere. Wonder if it still works after all these years?
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I've been through 3 different sets of pickups on my Strat and I would recommend Apaches, although for the Blug sound, Irish Tours appear more suitable. I would also go for a stock middle instead of a RWRP, as it helps to combat Stratitis.
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I would also go for a stock middle instead of a RWRP, as it helps to combat Stratitis.
If you have NOT RW/RP on the middle, will you then have practically humbucker when the in-between positions are selected?
And ... what exactly is stratitis?
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1) RWRP does not make a strat sound like a humbucker
2) Stratitis is the condition caused by too much pull on the magnet - normally associated with overwound strong magnet type pickups - causing out of tune wobbles and tonal dead spots. I don't think non RWRP or RWRP apaches will suffer from this, although tonally I think non RWRP have the advantage - and hum is a feature of strat pickups anyway.
My Apaches are non RWRP and they don't suffer from it - nor do my Mother's Milks which are Alnico V and are RWRP (great Blug/clean Hendrix pickups btw). In the sub 6k range of pup your not going to get stratitis.
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Look hear for a definition: http://www.sweetw@ter.com/insync/word.php?find=Stratitis
The pickups on vintage strats came with a stock middle. The in between sounds will not be like a humbucker, as they are selected in paralel and not in series.
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With or without a RW/RP middle pickup, the pickups are still in parallel and in phase with each other. The RW/RP middle gives you hum-cancelling in positions 2 and 4; it doesn't (IMO) massively change the sound in those positions, but it does seem to slightly emphasise the "hollowness" of the tone (maybe just because there's no hum?).
To get a humbucker-like sound from a Strat you'd need 2 (or more) of the pickups to be in series.
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To get a humbucker-like sound from a Strat you'd need 2 (or more) of the pickups to be in series.
I re-wired my second tone control to my bridge single coil (leaving the middle pickup without a tone control) and find that rolling back the tone to 5 or 6 can really thicken up the bridge pickup. Not exactly like a humbucker, but closer than anything else I've tried with single coils.
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My Apache set is RWRP and is essential when playing in venues that have a bloody annoying hearing aid loop installed. Positions 2 & 4 cancel out the feedback that occurs due to the hearing aid loop if you purchase RWRP, which is a life save sometimes...
... or you can think "Sod it" ... or similar.
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He has a very nice tone, but he is running the amp pretty hot, and uses the volume to clean up sometimes. He gets a really similar sound to my 60 strat. Tim rewound one of the pickups on it for me and I think that it is like the Mother's Milk wind (but it was 3 years and lots of BK's ago!). My Apache's are on my maple neck guitar and the sound is brighter, though I am sure on a rosewood fingerboard they will be really close too.
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He has a very nice tone, but he is running the amp pretty hot, and uses the volume to clean up sometimes. He gets a really similar sound to my 60 strat. Tim rewound one of the pickups on it for me and I think that it is like the Mother's Milk wind (but it was 3 years and lots of BK's ago!). My Apache's are on my maple neck guitar and the sound is brighter, though I am sure on a rosewood fingerboard they will be really close too.
Hmm, would you reckon on my maple neck Tokai, then a Mothers Milk set would be better/closer to that Blug vibe?
(http://www.bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/files/tokai_196.jpg)
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On a maple neck I think I would go with Apache's. Min are non-RWRP because the in-between sound is a little sweeter (and the guitar hums in the other settings anyway!!!).
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For that guitar it must be Apaches - no other will do!
BTW has anyone ever had Apaches wound with Alnico 5 magnets?