Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Pickups => Topic started by: Ced777 on July 20, 2005, 11:13:25 AM
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Hi guys,
I'm not really decided, but think more and more about having a new 3 SC set for ma G&L legacy (swamp ash).
I already had 3 sets in this particular guitar:
- first the stock G&L set (same SC in 3 positions). Not bad but uninspiring.
- then a SR set from Wagner (Alnico V, www.crcoils.com). Nice, versatile, good biting tone. My favourite 'till now. 3 very different SC. (the middle SC being the most overwound: 7,6 K!)
- then a Irish Tour set.
Well to be honest, the IT set was really good. BUT, I finally sent it back (and take a Cold Sweat set for another guitar). I like the output, the PUs were a bit noisier than WCR (just a tad bit), but I think I did not choose the right combos for my need. The IT was a bit "thick" and I think I prefer a sparklier, edgier/biter/more treble content single coils tone. A bit more "airyness". The IT set was the best for gainy, even high-gain (!), stuff. Just a bit smooth maybe.
So for now, I stick to the SR set. BUT, if I would go for another BKP set, what set could do the job? For a classic strat tone, versatile, with woodyness and lots of sparkle?
I thought about the Apache Alnico 3 set. Or maybe the Sultans?
Ced777
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The Apache is the living emodiment of your sonic description!
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I would like to be sure the Apache is not smoother (ie "less treble/sparkle/biting tone") than the IT. No mistake here: I like fat single coils tones. But prefer less "thick" (in the mids) tone and more sparkle.
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The apaches still have a strat 'spike' to them, the sultans are a bit smoother. The tours are a higher output pickups so will pick up more noise. I personally prefer the Apache, Sultan and Mothersmilk sets. They sound very stratty. Tours are silly grin pickups, they sound like you're really playing the hell out of the guitar even when you're playing lightly!
You can get the Tour tone on other lower output sets with heavy stings and heavy picking, but you have access to purer strat tones too. I'd recommend the Apachies or Mothers Milk for what you want.
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So the Apaches is probably the way to go. Thank you!
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Just edited my first post - sorry!
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Mother Milk is another competitor.... A bit stronger, Alnico V.... don't know what to choose between Mother Milk and Apaches....
I play with 10-46 (std tuning) strings.
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The Apaches would be my first choice, they're a little more sophiosticated but still rude, compared to the Mothers Milk. The A5 in the MM give them a bit more aggression, great for Hendrix type crunch tones.
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MM are a bit woodier, darker, less bright and a bit acoustic in their dynamic - I have an apache bridge and a MM neck and middke - you can get great tonal range between the two.
I also have a Rothwell neck adder pot that allows you to dial the neck into the bridge incrementally - I find that putting the neck in at about 3 out of 10 is a brilliant way of smooting out the bright bite of the Apache if you want a smoother sound.
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Wierd, I find them the Mothers more percussive, but still woody!
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MM are a bit woodier, darker, less bright and a bit acoustic in their dynamic - I have an apache bridge and a MM neck and middke - you can get great tonal range between the two.
I also have a Rothwell neck adder pot that allows you to dial the neck into the bridge incrementally - I find that putting the neck in at about 3 out of 10 is a brilliant way of smooting out the bright bite of the Apache if you want a smoother sound.
I have a bass and treble control pot on the G&L (more interesting than tone control). I lower treble when I want a darker/smoother tone.
I think the treblier Apache would do the job for me. I really like bright single coils.
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Go for it....the IT was a wrong choice, I'm not as much of a fan of it as the Milk, Sultan and Apache sets!
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Apache are the Tim's favourite SC set too. I think I will go for it. I just have to choose the plot staggering (54 or 59) and the "RWRP-or-not" middle pickup.
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why, are there disadvantages to using a RWRP middle pickup?
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There's a slight tonal difference, according to Tim, I've not tried a stock set myself.
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I would like to be interested to know this difference...
Well anyway, for a 60's strat tone (the tone I prefer are coming from strat "L serie" from 1961-1963...), would you go first with the Apache?
Ced777
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Here is a pair of clips I really like. The man is Thomas Blug, and it's tone (on "I'll be there " and "love crimes") is to die for (to my ears).
Sparkly, deepness and fat single coils tone.
:arrow: http://www.guitarplayer.de/band/video_clips.html
If you can take the time to see the videos, I would like to know if you think it's more of a Apaches or Sultans or Mother Milks tone.
His strat is a L serie circa 1961.
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My apaches have arrived - I'll install on thursday - I'll keep you posted!
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I'm really interested because you will get the three competitors I'm looking at: Sultans, MM and Apaches.
I'm really interested to know what model has the more treble, sparkle and bite, with the fatness/woodiness of single coils (a bit greasy) and without being too thick.
The Apache clips on the forum make me think they could be a bit too "50's" for me. And I liked the output of the Irish Tours.
I fear the Alnico II or Alnico III could be too low and soft/sweet. The Mothers Milk Alnico V , with something like 6,5 to 6,8 /6/6 could do the job (the Steve's clip "Funked" is really good!).
Tim?? Steve? What do you think about the clips? It's classic 60's tone to me.
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I just posted a clip of my Apaches earlier this evening - it's very clean, probably not what you're after but they also sound great with overdrive. I'm working on a dirtier clip at the moment but it will probably be at least a week before I manage to finish it.
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No opinion about the tone from Thomas Blug clips :?:
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CAn't get them to work at work!!!!
I'll try at home :roll:
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I listened to those clips CED77, very very nice tone. Pretty smooth but still had a nice bite. Of course he uses his volume control ALOT to get the right balance of smooth and grind. The Apaches might be too hot for that sound, and Irish Tours could be slightly to thick. I havent heard the MM or Sultans. The MM's might be too punchy, thats the Frusciante sound so Sultans could be the right route. One day, I will have all the BKP single sets on a plethora of customised strats! In 10 years, I'll get back to you, lol
Joe
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What do you mean by "too hot" for the Apache? I was thinking the Apache was the less "hot" of the lot, less output.
Thank you for the input.
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The Apache is the lowest out put single coil that we do, It’s the "classic" strat tone, and is the most versatile of all our single coils.
The MM is based on one of the winds fender used in the 60's, slightly tweaked. It will do the Hendrix/early chilli peppers tones no problem.
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On the paper, the MM would be a good choice for me (Hendrix and RHCP are good benchmarks tone to my ears).
My pickups are a bit far from the strings, even up to the max level (due to the design of the guitar itself: a tall fixed bridge and tall neck...). About 2-3mm far from the bridge PU, and 4-5mm far from the neck PU, even when they are at the highest setup.
So I think a more powerfull Alnico V magnet would suit me best. (I like them bright, punchy, sparkly, with enough power)
Would you have a song title from RHCP as an example? I know the RHCP LPs: One Hot Minute, Blood Sugar Sex Magik, and the later Californication. I don't know well earlier stuff. (probably a title from the Mother's Milk LP?)
Another question: MM is basically an Apache with A5 magnet, no?
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No, they are very different pickups, different wire and magnets.
I would say that the tone of the MM is close to the one hot minuet/mothers milk albums.
Considering the distance from the strings you have your pickups I wouldn't choose the apaches, alnico III is the weakest magnets that we use.
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So exit IT (too thick) and Apache (too "weak").
It would between Sultans and MM. Did you see the videos above, Steve? What pickups would be the closest (Sultan or MM). How would you describe the differneces between both (heard Sultan are smoother, and brighter in another topic... so I don't know)
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Sultans aren't quite as bright a the MM
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Bump for an old topic, but I saw Frusciante with RHCP a few nights ago on TV, and it makes me had a GAS for BKP Mother's Milk! :D Man, his rhythm playing is phenomenal. So much groove and so nice tone. I know he doesn't use BKP pickups, but I immediatly think about BKP seeing him.
Anyway, I'm just curious: how would you compare (if someone can do it? Maybe Tim?) the MM set with a Suhr V60 set? Does anybody ever played both?
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Don't know about Suhr V60 but Mother's Milk will get you into Thomas Blug territory easy.