Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Guitars, Amps and Effects => Topic started by: Woogie on August 09, 2007, 11:03:00 PM
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Basically my friend and his dad think that all guitar tone comes from the preamp and that the poweramp has no effect whether its valve or ss. They also think that valve preamp in a hybrid sounds like a valve amp.
My arguments for were:
Why do we buy valve amps then?
Why do valve amps sound better than hybrid.
Why does my JCM800 pwn your AVT.
Howcome cranked valve amps sound better than when quiet.
His dad has repaired amps in the past so its hard to argue!!
Any suggestions?
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Valves are analogue devices - There's no way that a signal can pass through a glass tube without affecting it.
Also mention the fact that 99% of Valve amps nowadays use the same 12AX7 preamp tubes - But very few valve amps sound the same. Then talk about the similarities in tone between amps sharing poweramp tubes - Such as 5150/Powerball/Other 6L6 amps - Or Marshall/Laney/Other EL34 amps.
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Hmmm could ask why the Vox moddeleres sound better than all the others (including the hybrid Marshalls)
Why does the nanohead (or any other small valve amp) sound so big, compared with (much larger) hybrids and solid state amps
Why do hifi people still want to use valve poweramps
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Why ask why? Bud Dry!
Honestly, if that's what the man thinks, your best option is to wink and give a sly smile and say 'well, you're wrong' and leave it at that. Leave the lazy b@stard to figger it out on his own.
Arguing for argument's sake is just silly.
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Get two amp heads, an SS and a valve one, both with "preamp out" and "poweramp in" features, then into a same cab try each power amp with one of the preamps to prove that it sounds different.
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How to win an argument:
(http://z.about.com/d/homerepair/1/0/s/-/-/-/hammer.jpg)
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:lol: :lol:
i think if we take a mix of TO's and Mark's suggestions here, we have the ultimate solution...
"wink, give a sly smile and say 'well, you're wrong', before clocking him one with the hammer., and leave it at that. Leave the lazy b@stard to figure THAT out on his own."
:)
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^ HA!!!!
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yeah, basically what's already been said. if they're that pigheaded and ignorant, there's probably no talking to them.
If you really want to prove it, i guess you could let them try a valve amp at different volumes to let them see how the power amp has no effect on the tone...
:roll:
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okay heres what you say.
Transistor (solid state) poweramps and tube poweramps both have break up levels, otherwise known as the point at which they are driven too hard to sound clear. When a transistor reaches that level, very very high frequencies are amplified alot louder than the mid to lower frequencies giving it a very screechy metallic tone otherwise known as poweramp distortion. When tubes break up, they have a more rounded tone because more mids are emphasized thus giving you that warm awesome tube fuzz like overdrive. If you've ever compared SS and tube poweramp distortion, you'd know how shitety SS sounds. Example: take a marshall mg, plug into the clean channel, and max out the volume. Due the same to a jcm 800, one will sound FAR better than the other. Why? POWERAMP DIFFERENCES
Also, current differences between tubes and transistors. Due to the size of transistors, current travels much faster through them, thus amps with solid state poweramps have much faster attack, and tighter bass. Tube poweramps as we know are far more spongy on the attack.
Also compare rectifier tubes. Tube rectifiers have way more sag than transistor rec's.
Then ask him. "if all the tone comes from the preamp, then why when i swich el34's to 6l6's, do i lose a lot of mids and gain alot of bass?"
Also, ask him why 6550's are so crunchy.
And why kt77's have more bass than el34's
and how the $%&# we know all this if poweramps have no effect on tone. What a dumbass hahahahah.
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at one point i had a Marshall Mosfet Lead 100 and a 3203 artist, which were literally identical except for my 3203 artist is partially valve. I couldn't believe how bad the Lead 100 sounded compared to the Artist, on both channels. I don't claim to know anything about valves or amps at all, but i know how much better the Artist sounded.
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yeah, basically what's already been said. if they're that pigheaded and ignorant, there's probably no talking to them.
If you really want to prove it, i guess you could let them try a valve amp at different volumes to let them see how the power amp has no effect on the tone...
:roll:
I'd also say that if the guy is that pigheaded and ignorant....what the hell is he doing repairing amps? :roll:
I wouldn't let him touch my amp with a bargepole as he obviously doesn't have a clue, lol.
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Tone is subjective no one can win, spend your time doing something more productive :D