Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Tech => Topic started by: _tom_ on August 15, 2007, 08:55:52 PM
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I've read about this mod but have no idea how to do it. Basically I'd like to try having a blender knob in place of the bottom tone knob. Currently I have my guitar wired so that the bottom tone knob adjusts tone for bridge and the top one adjusts tone for neck and middle. All I want is to be able to blend in the neck pickup a bit so that the bridge position is a bit thicker so I can take the guitar into heavier territory if I want to, would make it a bit more versatile I think. The tone knob thickens up a bit, but I just want to try the blender thing out of curiosity.
Thanks for any help :)
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interesting, i might have a lurk here for if i ever get a strat. :D
how about wiring the middle and bridge pickups in series? that could be quite cool too.
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I think this might be what you want, Tom. It's from Chris Kinman's site, the diagram for the blender pot is at the bottom on the left:
http://www.kinman.com/images/inside/toneWorkshop/tone/Strat_Wirogram.PDF
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I have an extra volume for the bridge on one of my 3 pickup guitars - all it needs is a wire from the switch to the input on the extra volume pot then a wire from the new volume pot to the master volume input.
some people just do it with a switch but a volume pot is a better idea if you want to blend them.
you basiclly need to bypass the switch for the neck pickup
so:
1. disconnect all the wires from the tags on the old tone pot
2. attach a wire from the tag on the 5 way switch that the neck pickup is attached to
3. attach the other end of this wire to the left hand tag on the pot(looking from the back)
4. attach a wire to the middle tag of the new volume pot
5. run this wire to the left hand tag of the master volume (there should be a wire from the switch already going there)
6. attach a short wire from the extra tag on the new volume to the back of the pot
you might need to rewire the (now) master tone to get that working properly but it depends how the capacitor was shared between the tone pots. basically if you are left with one end of it floating free attach it to the back of the pot and you should be good to go
the problem with this mod is that the neck pickup is always on when the volume is up - so it can take a bit longer to change between each pickup
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I think this might be what you want, Tom. It's from Chris Kinman's site, the diagram for the blender pot is at the bottom on the left:
http://www.kinman.com/images/inside/toneWorkshop/tone/Strat_Wirogram.PDF
well i couldnt find a diagram but thats pretty much it
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hmm right.. doesnt look too hard according to that diagram. Basically I still want to have the normal function of the standard 5 way switch but the ability to blend the neck pickup in on position 1/5 (the one where its pointing down to the ground - standard bridge switch position), is this possible?
Dave, any idea how you'd wire the bridge + middle in series and what kinda sound that'd give? I'm just looking to have the option of fattening up the bridge single if I ever fancy it, without sacrificing standard strat switching.
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it affects the working of the 5 way switch because to go from just bridge to just neck you would need to move the switch and turn the volume up and visa versa, so its a bit fiddlier and you have to decide if the extra sounds are worth it.
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That Kinman diagram will blend in the neck pickup to whatever's selected on the switch; if you want it to only work in position 1, I don't know if that's possible.
When you have the neck added to the bridge that way, it'll be in parallel, so it's not really going to make the sound fatter - it'll be more like the middle position on a Tele.
If you're looking for a humbuckerish sound, then Dave's suggestion is right, you need a pair of pickups in series. Not sure how to do that - I know the Fender American Deluxe Strat has series wiring options with the S-1 switching system:
http://www.fender.com/products/s1/pdf/AmericanDeluxeStratSSS010-1200.pdf
http://www.fender.com/support/diagrams/pdf_temp1/stratocaster/0101200_02A/SD0101200_02APg2.pdf
And I found this diagram, which gives a neck+bridge in series option. You need a triple-pole, double-throw mini-switch though, which might be tricky :? :
http://www.guitar-mod.com/wiring/andy_ultimate.gif
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hmm this all sounds a bit complex, I dont really know what I want :lol: Those Fender diagrams wont load for some reason Phil :?
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The Fender diagrams are hideously complicated anyway, I suspect they're not much help! :lol:
There might be a problem because they're pdf's I suppose. The first one's here, scroll down to "American Deluxe Series Stratocaster®":
http://www.fender.com/products/s1/
And the second one (the actual wiring diagram for the S-1 switch) is here, scroll to "American Deluxe Stratocaster® Upgrade":
http://www.fender.com/support/wiring_diagrams_parts_lists.php
I was going to say maybe you should just go for a bridge humbucker, but you've got that on your Charvel anyway haven't you?
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Cheers Phil, those diagrams work now. I dont think I'll bother with this as it seems more fiddly to swtich between things, I was hoping I could just have it so that the neck blends with the bridge only on position 1.
About hss, I had that on this strat for a while but I didnt like the look of it, the humbucker didnt fit in properly and it wasnt level in the pickguard, which didnt fit properly anyway :lol: The Rebel Yell actually sounded really good in my strat, with 250k pots to tame some brightness, sounded better than it does in my charvel.. and that is hss but I'll probably sell that anyway, I dont play it enough and I think I got a bad piece of basswood because it always sounds a bit scooped and fizzy :(
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http://www.treblebooster.com/brian_may_pickup_mod.htm
http://www.guitarnuts.com/wiring/serpar.php
http://www.guitarnuts.com/wiring/stratlovers.php (this one is probably the pick, i think it does everything you want)
That was just from a quick yahoo search, and I haven't checked them to make sure they're correct.
:drink:
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Well done Dave! :D
There are a hell of a lot of switches on that Brian May guitar, aren't there? I think it'd make my brain explode trying to remember what combination I needed for each sound.
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i was trying to get that strat lovers strat thing up last night but the link i found wasnt working
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Well done Dave! :D
There are a hell of a lot of switches on that Brian May guitar, aren't there? I think it'd make my brain explode trying to remember what combination I needed for each sound.
cheers, philly :D
yeah, that's what i find. It's nice having options, but at the same time, there are one or two combinations that will probably do you 95% of the time- and if they can't be selected quickly and easily, that kinda defeats the whole purpose of all those knobs and switches.
I know one of the yamaha superstrats (i think it was a yamaha) had a switch on it, which, regardless of what setting your pickup selector and volume and tone pots were at, could select the bridge humbucker at full whack- that seemed like a really cool idea to me. obviously maybe not for a strat, of course, but for something with a bridge humbucker and several pickup wiring options, seems like a nice idea.
i was trying to get that strat lovers strat thing up last night but the link i found wasnt working
ah i guess i got lucky then! :lol:
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I know one of the yamaha superstrats (i think it was a yamaha) had a switch on it, which, regardless of what setting your pickup selector and volume and tone pots were at, could select the bridge humbucker at full whack- that seemed like a really cool idea to me.
Yeah, Tom Anderson guitars have the same thing - the "blower switch". :D
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why does that grin make it seem so seedy? :?
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Could've been seedier with one of these - :P :wink: PDT_003
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Why don't you just buy a Rothwell Neck Adder - its a blender pot that allows you to add as much neck as you want - I find 50% to be about right.
Alternatively the Hot Little Knob allows you all those sounds and more . . .
http://www.rothwellaudioproducts.co.uk
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the neck adder switch is similar (in priciple) to the volume pot mod we described in the previous posts
_tom_ didnt like it because it takes longer to switch from just neck pickup to just bridge pickup, because you need to alter the volume and flip the switch to do it.
Elliot has confirmed that thi sis not an issue on the Rothwell neck adder so using one of these pots and converting the other tone to a master tone would be a worthwhile mod.
a normal pot could be customised to go open at the end of its travel in the same way that tone pots can by set to have a bypass position. i have outlined how to achieve this in another thread
http://www.bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9305
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see above
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i am going to try it out in my guitar with an extra bridge volume tomorrow and see if it functions as expected!!!
will let you know
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Sorry Wez your mistaken, I have a Neck Adder - its not a volume pot, it replaces the middle tone pot and you wire the neck tone pot as a master tone pot. It doesn't take any time at all, or interfere with the volume: there is no switching - you just roll it to zero to turn it off, or up as far as you want to go to blend the neck into bridge or middle-bridge as much as you want.
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Its good to know that it doesnt have the switching implications that using a stock pot will thankyou for clearing that up for us!
For most people its probably just worth handing £15 over to Rothwell but personally i wanted to see exactly how the rothwell pot worked because it looks so much like a stock control.
the main advantages of the rothwell over a stock pot are the improved taper and the bypass to make sure it doesnt affect switching. A nomral pot can be modded for the bypass as i detailed in another thread.
They have obviously experimented to get a pot with a taper that will give a gradual increase in volume - i havnt so it may be that all the adjustment on mine is at end end of the pot. it will still do the same sounds but possibly be slightly fiddlier to adjust
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just tried it and it works as expected. with the new pot turned down you have normal 5-way switch operation and dont have to fiddle with volumes to switch between pickups.
Turn the pot up and it gradually adds the chosen pickup to the other combinations.
The taper of the pot wasnt perfect as most of the volume difference was in the second half of the pots travel so that hopefully would justify the £15 for the rothwell adder - mine was still very useable and not to difficult to get a good blend between the pickups but hopefully the rothwell will have the same effect spread over the whole of the pots travel. Remember that mine could be done free as i could have just modified the existing pot!
it was two wires installed just like the rothwell but i also modified the existing tone pot so that you have master tone rather than just a tone for one pickup. i will do some wiring diagrams to put in the other thread i started fot this mod!
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Ok - I recommended an easy to install and effective product to Tom in response to his question. I use the product and passed this on in good faith as is common on these boards: I was reply to Tom's question.
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I decided to try this mod because after looking into the rothwell pot a bit more i could see them talking about a bypass to prevent this issue, which i will confess isnt something i had considered till i read it and then remembered an old trick for adding a bypass to pots that could be used to make this work with a normal pot... it works on the normal pot because i have tried it.
The rothwell will perform better because of the taper of the pot but the mod i have provided instructions for can be done for free. There are up and down side to both of them.
The bypass is a great idea and thankyou for pointing the way to the rothwell product. After modding a pot myself that way my main guitar now has easier and quicker switching than it did before.
the Rothwell pot definately seems like it would be a good thing to buy for £15 especially since not everyone wants to be taking potentiometers apart
What i have tried to do here is raise questions about a product. They are questions i have managed to answer with the help of elliot and a bit of experimenting on my part and i feel the product is better than my initial thoughts suggested.
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Wez - I've edited my post to take out anything that might be offensive to you - sorry if I offended you in any way :D
Peace, love and guitars.
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also edited my side to keep it informative rather than hot-headed
I have also changed the sentence:
the neck adder switch is very similar to the volume pot mod we described in the previous posts
to
the neck adder switch is similar (in priciple) to the volume pot mod we described in the previous posts
this was merely an observation about the product that perked my interest and i wanted to investigate it. It was not meant to dismiss the neck adder suggestion from elliot - it does indeed seem to be a good, easy to fit option for only £15
I apologise for not being clearer in my posts
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Well I feel like a bit of an idiot now :lol: After playing my LP the strat just sounds weak/thin in comparison, especially on the bridge position, so I think I might actually just go HSS and not worry about how it looks :oops:
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i would - i like hss strats
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I know we're on the BKP forum (so apologies, I guess), but what about a SC-sized HB like a Duncan JB Jr or DiMarzio Fast Track? At least then you preserve the Strat look, to some extent.
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Of course a strat will sound weaker than a humbuckered les paul, but you generally don't use them for the same things, i thought you wanted the strat for cleaner playing and stuff like that and not to compete with the LP?
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I know we're on the BKP forum (so apologies, I guess), but what about a SC-sized HB like a Duncan JB Jr or DiMarzio Fast Track? At least then you preserve the Strat look, to some extent.
for me they represent too much of a compromise, i have never found one i liked the sound of. never as good as a full size humbucker or single coil
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I know a strat wont sound like a les paul but I'd like it to sound a bit thicker on the bridge position, the other 2 singles are fine for me. I might try a Harmonic Design super 90, its made for fattening up the bridge position of a strat :D I actually use the two guitars for similar kinds of music, I just want a change sometimes which is why I wanted another guitar.
Philly I used to use a Dimarzio Chopper in the bridge position of this strat, sounded allright to me but too dull and flat sounding. Was actually thinking about the Super Distortion S as its meant to be a bit brighter. I did quickly have my Rebel Yell in this strat and it sounded pretty good to me, but the pickguard didnt fit right which I just found a bit annoying as it didnt look right to me.
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What about SD hot rails?
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i had to put a sd hotrails tele bridge pickup in that black tele i finished last month. Compared to the Sd jazz in the neck it was lifeless and dull and i recommended the guy changed as soon as he could!! the neck pickup sounded great so i know it wasnt the guitar i built making it dull :wink:
I think people who buy these mini or stacked pickups dont quite realise how much the physical size of a pickup determines its tone.
for a start you have the issue of how much of the string the pickup 'sees'. A full size humbucker is literally looking at more string than a mini humbucker.... i feel this counts for a lot - especially with bridge pickups where the tone can be quite poor if too close to the bridge. the string just moves less in that position.
the actual dimensions on the coil are important as well - tall thin coils sound different to wide flat ones. compare p-90's, jazzmaster p-ups and fender black doves to fenders usual single coils.
Obviously this all works together with stuff like number of windings, wire and magnet type and all other elements of construction. thats why i like to have Tim making the pickups, rather than continue to use the ones i have made myself ( although i did get some nice sounding ones it was more fluke than skill!!!)
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Strats sound pretty good with a P90 installed, that will certainly thicken things up a bit.
Failing that there was a discussion about mini humbuckers, which give a fenderish twang, but are also a little thicker in tone
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I actually have a prototype of a strat size p90 by BG pickups (same guy who made my neck+middle singles), I might as well try it in the bridge next time I want to restring.
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Well, a bit of an update if anyone cares. I put my RY in my strat and used a black pickguard from my old strat copy. I cant decide if I prefer the white one or not yet. This makes it look a bit "different" whilst the white one looks more classic. Havent got to play thru my amp yet but it sounds pretty good thru the V-Amp
(http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/7908/cimg9209gc5.jpg)
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i prefered the white!
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I'm undecided at the minute, typical of me! I will probably eventually get a white or parchment white one but I think this'll probably stay for a bit. I'm not sure how I'll like the master tone yet as I like to sometimes have the necks tone down a bit for a smoother tone whilst still having the bite at the bridge, so switching will take a bit longer..
The trouble with changing pickguards on this guitar is that its not very easy as it doesnt seem to be standard. I have to file down the bit that goes around the neck, a bit off the part around the bridge as well, as it wont fit in otherwise. Maybe theres some kinda non-standard pg I could buy?
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hello!
this post just to confirm the blender neck+bridge is what you say : a telecaster middle position!!! i make a strat from parts this summer and i have the blender. it is very simple to use, and helpful when you need this tele honky sound...
look at musikraft necks, mine is just beautiful...callaham vibrato too (what a sustain!). :P
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I think the black pick guard looks more rock, would go black.
Hmmm a strat with 2xP90 and a middle single coil would be a tempting design as well ...
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+1 for the bvlack pickgard
what about tortoiseshell?
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i had to put a sd hotrails tele bridge pickup in that black tele i finished last month. Compared to the Sd jazz in the neck it was lifeless and dull and i recommended the guy changed as soon as he could!! the neck pickup sounded great so i know it wasnt the guitar i built making it dull :wink:
yeah, i agree, i've tried the tele HR in the yamaha mike stern model. its neck '59 is quite nice (for a non-BKP, lol), but the HR is just horrible. It's ok in the in-between position, adds a little sparkle, but on its own it's just too shrill, hot, and thin. EDIT: oh i think i liked the white pickguard more. I'm not sure how I missed the last several posts in here... :?
and p90's in a strat sound pretty nice. that vintage av6 with p90's sounds pretty sweet.
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hm I think I am actually beginning to prefer the black pg aswell, may go back to one soon as I've allready gone back to SSS! Now, I have a tech question about the Rebel Yell I had in the strat. When it was in there, it sounded really singlecoil-y and twangy, so I didnt really see any point and switched back to the white pg with sss. However, when I took it off I realised that when I'd stripped back the outer insulation for the pickup, I'd accidentally also taken a bit off the bottom of the white wire. Could this have been shorting out on the bare wire to give it that singlecoil sound? Thats the only reason I can see it giving me that twangy sound, as when it was never like this in my Charvel.
Does anyone know why I need to keep filing down the bit around the neck and bridge of my pickguard to make it fit properly? its getting a bit annoying having to do that to every new pickguard..
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I've scanned over this thead and it seems you want a beefier bridge pickup tone. Is there any reason why nobody has suggested the hotter BKP bridge pickups? - the Sinner looks like a total brute that would get you into that territory.
:twisted:
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Well I have a Trilogy in the bridge position at the minute and its not bad. I think the sinner would be too metal.
If someone can confirm that the white wire shorting with the bare would cause my RY to be split all the time, I think I might just do that and get a coil tap - it was a pretty good split sound I was getting!
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If someone can confirm that the white wire shorting with the bare would cause my RY to be split all the time, I think I might just do that and get a coil tap - it was a pretty good split sound I was getting!
I guess it's possible - assuming the white and green were soldered together, then by contacting the bare wire you could in effect short out one coil of the pickup. It wouldn't be a good contact though, so I'd expect it to be a bit crackly and intermittent, perhaps.
I'd have thought one coil of a humbucker would sound a bit wishy-washy in the bridge position compared with the true single-coils though. Did the RY sound brighter/thinner than the Trilogy you have now?
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I had the guitar wired up like this:
(http://img103.imageshack.us/img103/3286/strathss1vol1tonega2.jpg)
It didnt sound thinner than my trilogy, if anything a bit fatter - it was almost like a HB but with that slight hollowness and twang that a singlecoil has. The sound wasnt intermittent or crackly, but then again the wires that couldve shorted together are quite close to each other anyway so they could probably have a fairly decent connection. I'm not sure if thats just how the RY should sound in a strat, as it had none of that twang or hollowness in my Charvel really.
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So there was a coil split in position 2 and, in theory, full humbucking in position 1.
I suppose the only way to find out for sure is by taping up the bare bit on the white wire and wiring it up again. Then tap the polepieces in position 1 to be 100% sure both coils are on. Bit of a pain, but your Strat's had more rewires than I've hot dinners. :wink:
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So there was a coil split in position 2 and, in theory, full humbucking in position 1.
I suppose the only way to find out for sure is by taping up the bare bit on the white wire and wiring it up again. Then tap the polepieces in position 1 to be 100% sure both coils are on. Bit of a pain, but your Strat's had more rewires than I've hot dinners. :wink:
Yeah it has had a lot of rewiring :lol: I might just leave it for the time being (give it a nice rest ;)), as I'm off to uni next week and probably wont take it so theres no point in pissing around with it, I'll just wait until I come back at xmas probably.