Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Guitars, Amps and Effects => Topic started by: MDV on September 20, 2007, 09:07:11 AM
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STILL on the super-amp search!
I need something thats capable primarily of a tight, heavy metal sound, not too bright, not peavy/mesa-dark, decent cleans (think 'way better than a 5150') and preferably quite an open more crunch oriented distortion as well (think ISIS, panopticon).
The only one of those I've tried is the powerball. I like. I like a lot. But are the others better? I've also heard the PB gets thin at high volumes and is fussy about speakers
I have a sneaky feeling the uberschall will have a better metal sound for me but not so much an open crunch sound? How are the cleans?
I've heard the invader isnt as high gain or tight, but it gives great note definition and responivness to pick attack. Can anyone confirm this? Can it be made to be tight?
I've heard good things about knuckleheads, but I've heard they're fizzy/brittle
Anything <£2000 I've missed? (oh, marshall JVM, for example...)
I cant easily get to try these out, so any eperience you can share or links would be great
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Diezel Einstein.....Fantastic piece of gear.
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I dont doubt it, but I'm very unlikely to get to play one, let alone A/B it with anything and they're very expensive (not that I'm looking at 'cheap' but they're a bit more up there)
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VHT Deliverance 60 Watt @ £1199
Soldano Avenger @ £1199
EVH 5153 @ £1299
Although the first two ARE exactly what you're looking for in the gain dept... they might not be perfect for your clean requirements. My advice is to get a Roland JC120 or something and run it through the same cab with a Radial Headbone VS, and AB the two... that would take you up to about £2,000
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Also, what I do on my Powerball if I want super crunch is max the gain on my clean/crunch channel and max the channel volume, that shite sounds intense!
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I've tried an Uberschall and it had a fantastic clean channel - MUCH more headroom than most amps. The guy in the shop was saying they designed the clean channel to be just that with none of this crunch lark.
The filth channel had it all imo - as much gain as you'dever need and still sounded great with the gain lower. It's got it's feet very firmly in the Marshall camp in terms of tone.
:twisted:
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A couple of things to consider:
You want a good metal sound, good cleans & a good crunch sound, but does that mean you need a 3-channel amp? (i.e. do you need to switch between the 3 sounds rather than just adjust the amp controls?) - if so, that instantly rules out the Uberschall.
IMO an EL34-driven amp does the "open crunch" sound better than a 6L6-driven one (yes, I know, sweeping generalisation :)), but I've found the Engls I've tried cover it well enough (see my comments in another thread about Savage vs HK Triamp)
Powerball's metal sound is very, very good, I liked it too (though I went for the Savage). How loud were you able to demo it? & with what speakers? If it sounded good to YOU at the volumes you want & with the speakers you're likely to buy, then why take any notice of what you heard?
Others to consider, given your comments about Mesa/Peavey:
Hughes & Kettner Triamp MKII - absolutely sensational clean & crunch sounds. I liked the high gain too - as much gain (http://www.hughes-and-kettner.com/lib/soundplayer.php?soundFile=Track09.mp3&soundName=Channel%203B) as anyone could want, but the Savage was just more "MEEEETTTTTTAAAAALLLLLL!!" :twisted:
Engl Savage (need I say more? :))
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problem is i haven't tried most of those. never even seen the invader... tried a couple of bogners (shiva and xtc) which i liked, but not the uberschall.
as orkestra says, both the soldano avenger and vht deliverance are sweet (haven't tried the 5150 III), but perhaps not just as modern-sounding as the engls. of course, people who don't like modern sounds just as much would probably prefer the soldano or vht. the diezel vh4 i tried was sweet too, but as you say, probably hard to find.
Cornford may not get heavy enough for you, but the tone is sweet. worth trying against the soldano and vht if at all possible. probably better value, being UK-made too.
you have about a bazillion options, basically, and as you doubtless know, it's just about getting to try as many of those options (at as high volumes) as possible, without blowing half your amp budget on train tickets or petrol, and then just buying the one you like best.
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Also try to get hold of an Elmwood M90 Modena... its about €2,200 if I remember what Peter told me
http://www.elmwood.se/
Also the Laboga Mr Hector http://www.labogaamps.com/english/hector.html has some nice sounds but it can be a bit dry
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i've heard good things about those, but never even seen one, let alone tried... :(
another one i forgot to mention is the brunetti xlr-evo. nice amp, and versatile.
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You won't get much better than a Diezel Einstein - They're amazing.
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OK for the Eini, but it is not that open. You said you want an open tone. That would be more the VHT or Soldano, but rather not ENGL, Diezel nor the Bogner Ueberschall, which are all rather compressed.
The Shiva is more open than the Eini, but probably not heavy enough for you.
If decent cleans are needed as you say, it must be a channel switcher, ever considered a DSL or JVM Marshall? I think those are really great amps.
The Rivera could be good, but I used to have a Knucklehead and could never warm up with it, now looking back I think it might have been biased badly, but I was too green in those days.
I haven't played the 5150 III yet, but that could also be interesting.
The ultimate amp for open rock sound, if you can afford it, is IMO the Bogner XTC Classic. But it's like 4500 EUR.
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The Koch Powertone II has 3 channels. The clean is lovely! The gain channel does the very slightest break up to a great rhythm crunch through to full on distortion with a big bottom end and quite an open sound, great dynamics. The ultra gain is super tight, compressed and is as heavy as wet carpet! Great for leads and sustains for ever with MM or Cold Sweat. It has all the specs you need and it's only around 1200.
Just check out the reviews on HC, then have a go on one!!
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that is true, the Koch is pretty full on...
maybe go through Matamp, they might be able to build you something truely unique for what you want.
Oh and also, try the Soldano and VHT, they are perfect for you, I swear
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As you know I have had/do have, an ENGL/Mesa and Rivera.
I still have the Rivera.
I love the build quality and immense tonal ranges it can acheive with a plethora of tweaks. It is the Knucklehead reverb.
Now, if I were you (and wanting the cleans, as good as fender as you will get imo) and wanting a Metal/Rock amp, I would go Rivera K Tre. I spent considerable time on one of these in a studio here in Austin.
What it had over my Knucklehead was like another gain stage. That is to say insanity was easier to reach easily! It still had the awesome build quality etc. but was abit simpler than the KR to dial in. I have read many people have trouble dialling 'their' tone in with a Tre, I did'nt have any problem myself (maybe due to similarity with Rivera's now anyway). But, as was a soundproof studio suffice to say I had a WAIL of a time :) BTW, they had Bogner, Divided by 13, Tophat etc. but my fave was def. the Tre.
Now, in my experience the Rivera HAS to be run above 3 on vol. or it sounds YUCK, but 3 plus (which can be GREATLY tricked/used by the effects loop trick) and a gorgeous NON fizzy deep and thick gain is reached.
Good luck mate.
Oh, BTW, as we have gone around this before when I was looking (and sub. got the Rivera). I have tried many Diezel amps now too. IMO I would never buy one. I truly know what 'hifi' sounding means now in conj. with the amp. It sounds like a well produced record but somewhat sterile and non organic to me, and I don't like that.
For ref. I played one of my EMG eqpt. FlatHeads and a Les Paul through the Tre.
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In fact, I have just remembered Rivera just brought out a 55 K Tre and combo , darn you Mark, got me gassing now! lol
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In fact, I have just remembered Rivera just brought out a 55 K Tre and combo , darn you Mark, got me gassing now! lol
Never looked at these amps before and I just watched a few of the vids .... :twisted: Very nice stuff. That 55 K Tre is sweet 8)
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OK for the Eini, but it is not that open. You said you want an open tone. That would be more the VHT or Soldano, but rather not ENGL, Diezel nor the Bogner Ueberschall, which are all rather compressed.
The Shiva is more open than the Eini, but probably not heavy enough for you.
yep, those are all pretty compressed (haven't tried the einy, based on the vh4 i tried). engl blackmore is less compressed, but again suffers from what the shiva suffers from, may not be modern enough for you, mark.
rivera are bound to be worth a look. I've only tried one of the little combos (pubster/clubster/chubster, can never remembre which one :lol: ), and it was very nice, if not really a metal amp. But some of the heads are meant to be good for metal, and nick normally knows what he's talking about.
so, er, yeah. try everything you can. :lol:
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The Koch Powertone II has 3 channels. The clean is lovely! The gain channel does the very slightest break up to a great rhythm crunch through to full on distortion with a big bottom end and quite an open sound, great dynamics. The ultra gain is super tight, compressed and is as heavy as wet carpet! Great for leads and sustains for ever with MM or Cold Sweat. It has all the specs you need and it's only around 1200.
Just check out the reviews on HC, then have a go on one!!
These are definitely worth trying out. I tried one out and they're an amazing amp. It's at the top of my new amp list :)
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The youtube vid of the K Tre combo is pretty accurate (from playing the head) but actually I am AMAZED at how thick it sounds with a semi open back 2 x 12!!!!!!!!!
You can attenuate these things with the effects loop pretty well but I might even look at adding a London Power PS unit.
My Rivera is sooooooooo tight yet organic and can get very heavy. Then the clean channel is like glass. VERY fine amps indeed. I never understand why they don't get as much excitement as say Diezel, Bogner, VHT etc. In fact their Quiana is amongst the BEST amps I have ever heard for old school rock or Blues. The Rivera's KNOW their stuff!
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6965991514677183315&q=k-tre&total=19&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=2
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Hey Nick!
Have you ever tried those sub bass cabs they make?
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Hey Nick!
Have you ever tried those sub bass cabs they make?
Hey Johnny, lol YES!
They are abit MAD! Bassists don't like em much, steals their thunder lol.
Truthfully, if you have heard a good car/home stereo and then the same WITH a sub woofer thats about the difference. They provide an immense sound (although I tried one with a K Tre and Knucklehead which have dedicated inputs for one, dunno if that makes any difference, i.e. tuned for em) and really 'move' your audience :evil:
The one I tried was studio one and not for sale. They are as rare as rocking horse shitee and although I do NOT need one, just for grin factor and rarity I would snag one at right price if available.
how about this for different?
(http://www.gbase.com/files/store_images/farfisapowered/1649130/photo1_660cb.jpg)
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I'd recommend ENGL other than their terrible build quality....
Maybe a Krank of some sort?
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Krank? Ewwwww...
yeah, if you want a tube amp that sounds like a cheap solid state with loads of horrid bass tones falling out of your speakers. They're great if you want to sound like a guitarist and a bassist at the same time, but in band situations, they $%&#ing suck.
They have to be the worst make of amps i've ever tried.
As for ENGL's build quailty, I find their customer support second to none, so if you get one build on a friday afternoon after a long liquid lunch then they will just send you a new one.
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Hey Nick!
Have you ever tried those sub bass cabs they make?
Hey Johnny, lol YES!
They are abit MAD! Bassists don't like em much, steals their thunder lol.
Truthfully, if you have heard a good car/home stereo and then the same WITH a sub woofer thats about the difference. They provide an immense sound (although I tried one with a K Tre and Knucklehead which have dedicated inputs for one, dunno if that makes any difference, i.e. tuned for em) and really 'move' your audience :evil:
The one I tried was studio one and not for sale. They are as rare as rocking horse shitee and although I do NOT need one, just for grin factor and rarity I would snag one at right price if available.
how about this for different?
(http://www.gbase.com/files/store_images/farfisapowered/1649130/photo1_660cb.jpg)
That does look different!
I get what your saying about those sub cabs. If my amp could run one I'd get one for my de-tuned Schecter with The Pig/MQ!
Is it a special output and could I plug a sub cab into my Koch Powertone II?
(http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m153/Johnnymac1965/P4090070.jpg)
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Hey Johnny,
yeah can run it with your Koch (titter).
I only mentioned the dedicated input on Riveras as am not sure how they have it routed.
There are a multitude of ways to wire/route one and with an amp like that am sure you would have options.
heres a rear panel shot;
(http://www.carlinoguitars.com/images/sub_rearpanel_expl.jpeg)
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Nice one Nick, Thanks.
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Well, I'm gonna wait till I get my legra back off bob (having a forearm angle thing cut into the body: it wasnt quite perfect because it was harder to play my silly trem picked stuff standing up cos of the fat, flat body and I want it to be flawless :twisted: ) and then its off to guitarguitar in newcastle to try A/B/C/D/E an invader, powerball, uberschall, avenger (if they have one by then, they dont right now) and deliverence.
I'm very dubious about the single channel amps, but this purchase will be made based on tone and reliability only. So long as I can switch in some form or another from very clean to very metal, I'll be happy. Good open crunch sound is a really big bonus.
I cant find anywhere that has riveras for me to try, Nick :cry: I really want to give the knucklehead and K Tre a whirl: they sound great. Know anywhere that stocks them?
JVM is also now a contender, but I'm not worried about that, its not like the latest marshall flagship is gonna be hard to find :lol:
I just thought, too: Laney VH100???
Hmmmmm
Thanks for the input so far folks, keep it coming, I'm well up for new suggestions!
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No problem Johnny, good luck.
Mark, more my neck of woods but this store has MAJOR selection !
http://www.theguitarstoreonline.co.uk/stockamps.html
Chandlers also may have some
http://www.imagineguitars.com/amplifiers.htm
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i'd have said the single channel ones are more versatile than you think, especially if you're willing to turn down your guitar's volume. the vht deliverance has a footswitchable boost too, from what i remember... not pristine clean to br00talz, but the lower gain mode should clean up pretty well with the guitar's volume. Nice amp. though at that price they all should be nice. :D
oh, and i'd wager it's worth buying a koch just for the jokes. hours of fun.
EDIT: oh guitar guitar are laney dealers, so if you're lucky they might have the vh100r and tt100h as well that you can try.
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Well if its a real contender tone wise, and I cant decide on anything about the sounds between a Koch and anything else, I'm getting the Koch. Have to. Basic principle. You cant pass up a humour opportunity like that.
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I'm hearing scary things about Uberschall reliability: anyone got any info?
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Any lub for the hiwatt high gain SER?
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The Hiwatts are really nice but very old school. Also, VERRY fizzy at low volumes.
I liked it though, great mids, bass is a little to... transparent unless you're really chugging those Palm mutes.
Once you get that treble up, the gain becomes ridiculous.
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Well if its a real contender tone wise, and I cant decide on anything about the sounds between a Koch and anything else, I'm getting the Koch. Have to. Basic principle. You cant pass up a humour opportunity like that.
8) Hey Mark you will love this amp so much! If your ever stuck for a demo, then you can try my AMP out if you like! It does all the classic rock sounds and has an amazing clean tone too but the metal end of it is brutal!
Also at the price for me it was a no brainer!
I've had mine two years now and it's never played up at all. It's built like a tank.
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Would it be fair to say you love your koch, Jonny? :lol: :wink:
Thank you for the offer to come play it! Very kind. Its a bit of a trek, but if I cant find one on my guitar shop travels (me, my other guitarist, who seems dead set on a fireball and a caparison, and vocalist whos a n00b guitarist but already has GAS are going on expeditions) then I may well take you up on it! Who knows, I might love your koch too :lol: (oh dear....its started and I dont even have a koch! OH NO! IT BACKFIRED! This could end in tears....)
And thanks for the links, Nick. They look great! (so far though, but if thats what you gotta do for TONE then so be it!).
Good balanced view of the Hiwatt, there Orkestra....I'm not really encouraged by it, though....I like 'modern' and this is going to be a recording amp too every now and then (every couple of weeks or so when I get a track sorted and want to record it with good tone, reather than fizzy lifeless POD XT tone), and I need hearing and no ASBOs!
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Would it be fair to say you love your koch, Jonny? :lol: :wink:
Thank you for the offer to come play it! Very kind. Its a bit of a trek, but if I cant find one on my guitar shop travels (me, my other guitarist, who seems dead set on a fireball and a caparison, and vocalist whos a n00b guitarist but already has GAS are going on expeditions) then I may well take you up on it! Who knows, I might love your koch too :lol: (oh dear....its started and I dont even have a koch! OH NO! IT BACKFIRED! This could end in tears....)
And thanks for the links, Nick. They look great! (so far though, but if thats what you gotta do for TONE then so be it!).
Good balanced view of the Hiwatt, there Orkestra....I'm not really encouraged by it, though....I like 'modern' and this is going to be a recording amp too every now and then (every couple of weeks or so when I get a track sorted and want to record it with good tone, reather than fizzy lifeless POD XT tone), and I need hearing and no ASBOs!
Your welcome mate! Yes I love my Koch sooooo much!! Hmmm Koch jokes are never ending :lol: ! Also try and get a Loadbox II with it as your'll have an attenuator and lots of recording options. Also a BBE sonic maximiser through the effects loop gives a fantastic metal tone!
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Yeah Mark, perfection aint easy to get to in any respect.
Johnny is kind guy (ya could try my Rivera but as am currently in Texas I dunno if my mum in UK would be prepared for you turning up on her doorstep in Wiltshire lol).
One thing with the Rivera's (dunno bout Johnny's Koch :P ) you can engage the effects loop and turn it down and it acts akin to an inbuilt attenuator.
And if it's any consolation, 'good' stuff aint always right around the corner/easy to demo on this side of the pond either.
BTW, if ya want the amp for low vol. recording and a seperate solution is need. I would maybe find a good/compitent tech. and ask about adding a London Power 'Power Scaling' box ($200) or maybe one of these (as they get fantastic reviews, and an alternative to a koch etc.);
http://www.musictoyz.com/guitar/amps/badcatleash.php
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wow, it seems like everyone in here loves Koch.
heh.
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Would it be fair to say you love your koch, Jonny? :lol: :wink:
Thank you for the offer to come play it! Very kind. Its a bit of a trek, but if I cant find one on my guitar shop travels (me, my other guitarist, who seems dead set on a fireball and a caparison, and vocalist whos a n00b guitarist but already has GAS are going on expeditions) then I may well take you up on it! Who knows, I might love your koch too :lol: (oh dear....its started and I dont even have a koch! OH NO! IT BACKFIRED! This could end in tears....)
my work is done. :lol:
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Krank? Ewwwww....
Yeah, that's my personal opinion too but I thought I'd throw it out there anyway.