Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Pickups => Topic started by: MartinS on September 30, 2007, 05:31:06 PM
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OK, based on Tim's recommendations I've gone for a calibrated Mule set for my 335. I'm going to have these fitted by a tech as there's no rear access. Just wondering if there's anything else I should have replaced at the same time (as long as it's relatively cheap!).
Cheers.
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Some good quality pots will make a big difference.
I replaced the pots on my Tele and the sound instantly seemed bigger and fuller on the stock pickups, and now you can actually use them.
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Hmmm... I've done a search and am now more than slightly perplexed!
Pots, caps, orange drops – weren't these the things that were in Pandora's Box?!
I might just stick with the pickups, unless someone can say 'if you fit [this] and [this] it'll make all the difference".
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Buy some CTS pots and some nice capacitors, sprague orange drops if you're on a budget and Hovlands Musicaps if you value your tone.
I have no idea what goes into a 335 in terms of pot values and capacitor values, but I would guess it would be the same as a Les Paul (500k pots and .022uf capacitors).
Can anyone confirm that as I am not 100% sure?
It would be a damn shame if you changed the pickups and not changed the pots and caps.
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Cheers. It occurred to me that while I was paying someone to swap the pickups it would be wise to change the other bits and pieces (which apparently aren't too expensive) at the same time: I want to take this to the tech ONCE, and once only!
Grateful for any advice.
PS: I'd need four pots, I can work that out, but, um, how many caps?
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Just the two caps.
But I'd just like to say, if it's an American 335 I wouldn't assume the electronics automatically need replacing. Do the existing volume and tone controls work OK?
If it's a Japanese or Korean guitar, then replace away - the pots are never any good. They usually seem to only have any effect between 0 and 3.
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But I'd just like to say, if it's an American 335 I wouldn't assume the electronics automatically need replacing. Do the existing volume and tone controls work OK?
Yes they do. It's a 79, built in Kalamazoo.
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According to this page (http://www.vintageguitars.org.uk/gibson_pots_by_guitar/43/ES-335TD) the pots are likely to be either 300k or even 100k.
To be honest, the tone pots seem to do very little to me.
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That's a useful link, thanks.
So yeah, sounds like you want to get those 500Ks in!
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Agreed. For the minimal extra cost while it's at the tech you should get:
* Four 500k CTS pots with audio taper
* Two 022uf capacitors for the tone controls
The capacitor type is up to you, but any of the good brands will be fine. Choose what your budget desires:
Hovland MusiCaps
Sprague Orange Drops
Mallory 150s
Jensens
Vitamin Qs
Vintage Bumblebees
etc
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Cheers, guys. The Orange Drops are much cheaper than the Hovlands; does this reflect the impact on the sound, or isn't it that big a difference?
Thanks.
Martin
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It depends how sensitive your ears are to the slight tonal difference. Mine are quite sensite and I find:
Orange Drops = clear, maybe a little sharp sounding, quite musical
MusiCaps = very clear, hi-fi type clarity, slightly less musical
I'm talking very slight differences here though. In a live band context it'll make no difference anyway!
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It depends how sensitive your ears are to the slight tonal difference. Mine are quite sensite and I find:
Orange Drops = clear, maybe a little sharp sounding, quite musical
MusiCaps = very clear, hi-fi type clarity, slightly less musical
That's interesting - I'm generally perfectly happy with Orange Drops, but I have one MusiCap which I bought on the spur of the moment then never used. Do you think it would be good with a P-90, or better with humbuckers (or not bother at all)?
I think, on the whole, expensive caps are a luxury I can live without.
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Phil - I'd try it in your Epi Junior with the P90 and see what you think. I have them in two guitars and while they give exceptional clarity they seem to lose a little of the musical sweetness we all strive for. I can see why they're used in hi-fi stuff as they do not seem to colour the sound of the guitar at all. While this is a good thing, you do lose a little of the musicality that some guitar parts can bring to the overall mix.
For what it's worth, I won't be buying any more for any other guitars. I've left them in my two guitars for now as they do add to their personalities, but I may try swapping them for something else in the future.
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Thanks for the help and advice. I've ordered four CTS pots and two Orange Drop caps.
I only hope all this expense is worth it!
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Good choice Martin - you can't go wrong with what you've chosen.
Enjoy your new found tone!
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Thanks. Hey, just had a look at your website: I love AC/DC. have you heard their version of Baby Please Don't Go? Malcolm Young's rhythm guitar's fantastic.
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Yeah, it's a cracking version - from the '74 Jailbreak album. I heard a rumour that Malcolm played lead on the "Show Business" track...
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Just to confuse matters, I asked Gibson and Tim about this: Gibson say:
"The right value pots for your guitar should be Volume: 300k Linear and
Tone: 500k Audio (log)."
Tim says:
"On an older guitar of this calibre I generally advise to leave the working as is if it's all working well."
I suppose now I've ordered the pots and caps I should have 'em changed...?
What do you think?
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I guess you may as well change them, Old pots may be a bit scratchy?
Jsut don't throw away the originals
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Yeah, the old volume pots are slightly scratchy down around 1-2, but I use a volume pedal for swells.
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Tough decision. I tend to think that if a guitar's been left unchanged for a long time, it's sort of bad karma to mess with it - one of the reasons (apart from cost!) I don't buy vintage guitars.
But you're changing the pickups anyway, and they will almost certainly work better with 500Ks than with the old pots. Then again, if the pots are 300K/100K and you're used to them, the brighter, more lively tone with 500Ks might come as a bit of a shock!
And to make matters worse, wiring a 335 is such an awkward job - you really want to make the right decision first time!
If you do decide to keep the old pots, get the tech to clean them while they're out of the guitar - that should fix the scratchiness at least.
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Hmm... I don't know. I'm not a great fiddler with the tone and volume knobs to be honest. Maybe I should leave the old ones in a keep the CTS and Orange Drops as spares.
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OK, here's your last chance to advise me: my pickups have arrived, as silvery as a fish. So, do I get the tech to instal them and leave the pots and caps, or change the pots and caps, too?
Personally, I'm leaning towards the former, but want to get the most out of the pickups.
Cheers.
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You can ask the tech to clean them and see what they sound like and have him decide. I would change the capacitor anyway as you won't have bumblebees and the orange drops will sound better. To change pickups on a 335 you have to pull the pots anyway, so you could also have him try the different volumes. I would be tempted to upgrade the bridge pickup pots anyway, as a 500K Audio would give a brighter sound and I usually prefer the audio taper on the volumes.