Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Guitars, Amps and Effects => Topic started by: ailean on October 16, 2007, 08:30:18 PM
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I need to replace the 3 12AX7 tubes in my Peavey Valveking. There seems to be an enormous amount of different tubes out there and I'm out of my depth. These will mostly be played clean, but I also plug a Big Muff into this amp.
I'm looking at the JJ Tesla tubes and they do a Cryo range, is this a gimick or is it worth it?
Talk to me!
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Regular JJ ECC83s work great for me in all my amps. I don't buy any other type. You can't go wrong with them and they're only about £9 each.
Oh, and they sound better than the old Brimars in one of my Klipps. They stay clean when they're supposed to, are nice and crisp/clear, and overdrive smoothly.
What more do you want?
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The JJ 12ax7's will do just fine. Personally I wouldn't bother with the cryo -treated ones. But, I would buy any current production tubes from someone who tests them really well, and throws away all the duds. Watford Valves is the the best in the UK for this.
NOS tubes are great, and can sound fantastic. THey can be had pretty cheap on ebay BUT you have to know what you are looking for or you can very easily get burnt. There's a lot of tube scammers out there. Also people who simply don't know what they've got. I'd be happy to guide you to some good ebay tubes if you wanted. PM me if interested. I can usually get what I consider to be great NOS or hardly used vintage 12ax7's for about £10-£20 each.
NOS tubes are likely to last much longer than current production tubes, and often give a nicer tone. YMMV, of course. In multi-gain stage modern amps, the tonal improvements are often less noticeable than in simpler circuit vintage-style amps.
Alan
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every time i order valves, by the time they get to me they're cracked and broken. I'd suggest buying them in a shop if you can.
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The JJ ECC83 is a nice safe valve, they always sound good but the 'S' suffix version is a little more lively and has less of that neutral tone of the standard model (imo). The EH 12AX7 is also a fine valve as is the Sovtek 12AX7LPS.
If you want bang for the buck, Watford are still doing JAN-spec Philips 12AX7WAs for £18.00 a pop - these are gorgeous valves... http://www.watfordvalves.com/product_detail.asp?id=677
One other thing I'd advise... buy a really nice (NOS) preamp valve for the first preamp stage (V1) as this is where you'll notice the biggest improvement. Use good quality current production valves for the other preamp slots (this is the way I do it).
:twisted:
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every time i order valves, by the time they get to me they're cracked and broken. I'd suggest buying them in a shop if you can.
Someone must have something against you Indysmith ! Either that, or you are the unluckiest man alive.
I must have ordered over 20-30 valves or sets of valves over the last year or so (mostly from the states actually) from all sorts of sellers. Every one has arrived in perfect condition. They are actually really easy to send safely, being so light.
In this case, I would recommend anyone to order online from anywhere in the world. It's definately the way to pick up what you want at a good price.
HTH is right in saying that the valve in V1 is usually the most critical for tone, and should be first you try and replace when experimenting. BTW, for anyone who is not aware of it, V1 will be the closest to the guitar input jack.
Alan
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The JJ ECC83 is a nice safe valve, they always sound good but the 'S' suffix version is a little more lively and has less of that neutral tone of the standard model (imo).
HTH is right - I always use the 'S' suffix model. Forgot to say that :oops:
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I agree with the above - cheapish valves like JJs are great and last for ages - but a NOS like the JAN Philips in V1 will give you the magic of valves. I have tried cryo treated valves - I think there is a marginal difference, maybe slightly more presence, but I think the jury is out.
And for American type amps like the Valve King don't discount considering the JAN-Philips or GE 5751 for V1 - I went from a Harma DR270 hi-gain valve to the lower gain 5751 and have never look back - the extra headroom, sweeter tone and the fact that pedals don't push the thing into OD immediately so that the power valves can get pushed a bit more means more overall organic tone to my ears. The hi-gain boys here will probably tell you otherwise, though.
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I have a small collection of different types, Sovteks, GEs, JJs, TADs, EIs, Penta (tung sol).
I really like Tung Sol and EI. The 12AX7LPS is great if you want more gain. But it completely depends on the amp and which direction you wanna go. Usually I take the amp out of the box and start combining different types - experimenting always brings me to a good result.
If you want some good and personalised advise, contact Doug (from Dougstubes.com). He knows most amps and knows what works. He sent me a set of new tubes for the Bogner Shiva, which was spot on!
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Thanks guys, thats a help :)
I'm intrigued by this
One other thing I'd advise... buy a really nice (NOS) preamp valve for the first preamp stage (V1) as this is where you'll notice the biggest improvement. Use good quality current production valves for the other preamp slots (this is the way I do it).
It's a valve from the later pair that is causing the problem, and the amp alreday has a different valve in the V1 stage by the look of it (electro Harmonix). I might put a pair of JJ's in the second and third slots and look around for something sweet for the V1 stage.
Watford are still doing JAN-spec Philips 12AX7WAs for £18.00 a pop
Are these worth the extra if I put a NOS in front?
I can see me spending a small fortune on tube samples :(
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I use Harma 7025 in V1 (12AX7 compatible with higher mu) and NOS Philips 12AX7WA in V2 & V3, all cryo treated form Watford Valves. It sounds as good clean and distorted, but my amp is not a Valve King :D
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Watford are still doing JAN-spec Philips 12AX7WAs for £18.00 a pop
Are these worth the extra if I put a NOS in front?
I can see me spending a small fortune on tube samples :(
I'd say the JAN-Philips is well worth a try in V1. £18 is not a bad price.
Beware though, NOS tube buying can be addictive !!
Alan
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Watford are still doing JAN-spec Philips 12AX7WAs for £18.00 a pop
Are these worth the extra if I put a NOS in front?
The JAN-spec Philips 12AX7WA IS a NOS valve. I personally wouldn't put them in the other preamp slots as I think it's diminishing returns in those valve slots. V1 is where you get the most bang for the buck and will notice a BIG improvement by using a quality NOS preamp valve there (like the Philips one I mentioned above).
:twisted:
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Thanks for the clarification HTH!
For £18 I'm willing to take a risk if I get a nice tone out it.
Looking like JJ's and a JAN spec Phillips at the moment then!
Thanks guys, I value your opinions. I have to say this forum is an invaluable source of information to a novice like me, I love the fact that I can ask a question and get a variety of answers without starting a fight.
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I love the fact that I can ask a question and get a variety of answers without starting a fight.
says who? - are you calling my pint a queer? :roll: :wink: :lol:
:twisted:
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I love the fact that I can ask a question and get a variety of answers without starting a fight.
says who? - are you calling my pint a queer? :roll: :wink: :lol:
:twisted:
Your pint's so pink I need shades to look at it :twisted:
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As I now know that you use your VK for cleans, I would suggest trying a NOS 5751 (a lower gain version of a 12AX7) in V1. This will not make your amp significantly quieter, but it will give you more clean headroom. You will also get the "goodness" of NOS. Another bonus is that NOS 5751's are significantly cheaper than NOS 12ax7's.
Have a look at http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/5751-PHILIPS-ECG-ECC83-TUBE-VALVES-NEW-1-PC_W0QQitemZ9730647136QQihZ018QQcategoryZ39997QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem . That is as cheap as a new current production 12ax7. You can't lose ! Just pop your EH tube from V1 into the "faulty" valve's position and stick the 5751 into V1. If it were me, and I wanted cleans from the amp, that is what I would do.
Alan
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Ah ha - another person who knows the joys of a 5751 - In the hi gain environment of these boards, I was beginning to think I was alone.
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Ah ha - another person who knows the joys of a 5751 - In the hi gain environment of these boards, I was beginning to think I was alone.
+ 1 !
Being mainly a 'clean' player, I love what one or more 5751s can do to improve an amp's tone and flexibility.
I also concur that whatever one's gain requirements, V1 seems to dictate a lot of the amp's tone from thereon in ...
F.F.
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The JAN-spec Philips 12AX7WA IS a NOS valve. I personally wouldn't put them in the other preamp slots as I think it's diminishing returns in those valve slots. V1 is where you get the most bang for the buck and will notice a BIG improvement by using a quality NOS preamp valve there (like the Philips one I mentioned above).
Hmm. I may give one of these a try in my JTM45. Is it worth getting the higher gain driver one at £25 to try too?????
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I have been using RFT's in my McIntyre and they get a great sound, but I just tried a set of Tung Sol 12AX7's in the Silver Jubilee and I was very impressed with them. I also like the groove tube 12AX7M's. The 12AT7/5751 swap is great if you are losing definition, but in my amps the clarity seems to be there still with the RFT's and Tung Sol's.
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Talk to Derek at Watford Valves. There isn't a better resource anywhere on the planet for getting good advice and great valves. http://www.watfordvalves.com/
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Damn you guys and damn my GAS - i'm trying to find nice NOS valves for my Matamp now... :P
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I love the fact that I can ask a question and get a variety of answers without starting a fight.
says who? - are you calling my pint a queer? :roll: :wink: :lol:
:twisted:
Your pint's so pink I need shades to look at it :twisted:
Get her!!! My pint's more man than you'll ever be and more women than you'll ever get :lol:
:twisted:
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The JAN-spec Philips 12AX7WA IS a NOS valve. I personally wouldn't put them in the other preamp slots as I think it's diminishing returns in those valve slots. V1 is where you get the most bang for the buck and will notice a BIG improvement by using a quality NOS preamp valve there (like the Philips one I mentioned above).
Hmm. I may give one of these a try in my JTM45. Is it worth getting the higher gain driver one at £25 to try too?????
fwiw, the Phillips/Sylvania valves are best suited to Fendery type amp-stages - that includes many high-gain 'boogie' types of amps.
For your JTM45 I'd look at Mullard, Brimar, Mazda (all have that typical Brit midrange crunch).
I've got some GE 12AX7s that are gorgeous for any Fender-inspired amp, just a smooth tone with fat harmonics. My old Tonemaster sounded fantastic with these valves.
I've got an old blackplate RCA 12AX7 that has a great midrange - agressive and fat. Different to the Mullards and Brimars, but not a second choice by any standard.
My advice would be to watch out on ebay and and try some used (but tested good) valves.
Check these out, $10 with no bids and less than a day to go... http://cgi.ebay.com/3-GE-SHORT-RIBBED-PLATE-1-17mm-HALO-12AX7-ECC83-TUBES_W0QQitemZ190163765495QQihZ009QQcategoryZ73378QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
:twisted:
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and these are tasty too... (pair of Tung Sols)
http://cgi.ebay.com/Tung-Sol-ECC83-12AX7-square-getter-strong-matched-pair_W0QQitemZ120173556965QQihZ002QQcategoryZ64629QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
:twisted:
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Get her!!! My pint's more man than you'll ever be and more women than you'll ever get
Ouch!
Thanks for the info HTH, most useful. :)