Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum

Forum Ringside => Pickups => Topic started by: Tim on April 23, 2007, 10:27:34 AM

Title: Magnet types
Post by: Tim on April 23, 2007, 10:27:34 AM
As requested here's some notes on magnet types I posted previously which I hope will be useful:

"Magnets do add to the character of a pickup although it must be understood that a magnet doesn't have a sound on it's own, it contributes by the way it accentuates certain frequencies as current is produced in the coil windings.
Alnico II is the softest and generally has a smooth bass and treble although this is more pronounced the hotter the windings get.
Alnico III is very transparent, low output and clean,sounds great for rounded fat jazz applications-typical of '50s tone.
Alnico IV is probably the best vintage tone IMHO(for humbuckers) and along with II and III was used in the earliest PAFs-this is a fact and not myth as we've had them analysed and a collegue of mine has also seen original Gibson purchase orders that clearly state AIV bar stock being purchased.The tone of AIV is balanced and extremely organic, it produces the most authentic vintage tone and sits better in slightly hotter vintage winds than AII which tends to get very soft in the bass and highs if used incorrectly.
Finally Alnico V is the hottest producing more highs and lows, great for rock applications or where power and cut are important.
Different companies use different grades for personal reasons, we use all of the applicable Alnico grades to suit the correct design, both to be historically correct but more importantly to have the best sound.
Changing magnets in a humbucker can give dramatic results, you soon find the ones that really don't sit right and others that are head and shoulders better.Obviously you can't swap out single coil magnets as they're integral to the coil form.
I've personally spent alot of time voicing all the BKP range with the correct magnets but I do tweak and swap sometimes on consultation with a customer with a specific requirement."
Title: Magnet types
Post by: MDV on April 23, 2007, 12:38:36 PM
Awesome, thanks Tim  8)
Title: Magnet types
Post by: Neemo on April 23, 2007, 01:10:58 PM
What about ceramic magnets?
Title: Magnet types
Post by: dave_mc on April 23, 2007, 04:04:05 PM
^ :lol:

anyway, it's a good idea. :drink:
Title: Magnet types
Post by: BloodMountain on April 23, 2007, 05:00:03 PM
Quote from: Neemo
What about ceramic magnets?

yeah...

great article.... i know which is my favourite just by reading it!
Title: Magnet types
Post by: Tim on April 24, 2007, 09:33:26 PM
Apologies-the original question was just aimed at the different Alnicos.
We use ceramic 8 as do most pickup makers-it is more powerful and essentially more efficient so the resulting tone usually has a very fast tracking bass response with a distinct cut in the highs.Some players find them cold/hard when run clean and they can cause alot of compression from their relatively hot output-again, depending on how you use them, they are capable of good clean tones too but the general consensus is that Alnicos are sweeter run clean.
Title: Magnet types
Post by: Mr Ed on April 24, 2007, 11:26:28 PM
Excellent post, Tim, very handy to have around!  8)
Title: Magnet types
Post by: splawnster on May 25, 2007, 03:49:08 AM
My first post and this is the best info I have read on the net in a while. Thanks for the great information on magnets.
Title: Magnet types
Post by: pagan7 on June 11, 2007, 09:25:41 PM
Maybe a stupid question but I'm assuming that ceramic and alnico magnets are both made and cast in a similar way ?
Therefore would it be possible to make a hybrid magnet by blending various amounts of ceramic and alnico at the casting stage and end up with a magnet that had the properties of both, and would that give you the best of both in one magnet ?
Cheers
Title: Magnet types
Post by: WITH FULL DISTORTION on June 29, 2007, 08:54:51 PM
I have a little question Tim : how many models of Ceramic magnet exists?
just the Ceramic 8?!
Hails
JP
Title: Magnet types
Post by: Davey on June 29, 2007, 09:00:37 PM
ooo, good question JP
Title: Magnet types
Post by: WITH FULL DISTORTION on June 29, 2007, 09:23:07 PM
i asked that because i heard that there are alnico 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8 . and some guys are swapping their magnet for neodymium ones.
and now i read that there is a CERAMIC 8. then must be a ceramic 666(thats mine. PISS OFF. ahahah) or a ceramic 1,2,3 etc.
just for the sake of Information
Q:)
JP
thank´s in ADVANCE.
Title: Magnet types
Post by: Kilby on June 29, 2007, 10:13:06 PM
Quote from: pagan7
Maybe a stupid question but I'm assuming that ceramic and alnico magnets are both made and cast in a similar way ?
Therefore would it be possible to make a hybrid magnet by blending various amounts of ceramic and alnico at the casting stage and end up with a magnet that had the properties of both, and would that give you the best of both in one magnet ?
Cheers


The Kinman site has some info as to why he dosn't think ceramics sound good (personal poinion of course, but he gives some info regarding the differences)

As far as I am aware ceramic magnets are made from a powder that is pressed into dies I think the term for this is 'sintered'

Alnico can be cast or sintered (though cast is more common I beleive)

Ceramics are strontium carbonate (or barium) and iron oxide where as alnico are diffrent metals, so it's unlikely that they would cast happily)

From what I remember Ceramics come in 1, 5 & 8 (5 & 8 have magnitised in the direction of pressing)

Rob...
Title: Magnet types
Post by: WITH FULL DISTORTION on June 30, 2007, 12:37:35 AM
:lol:
thanks
Title: Magnet types
Post by: 5F6-A on July 03, 2007, 11:26:36 PM
thank you Tim,

Very informative. Nevertheless I understand  NOT all alnicos IIs are the same, or all anico Vs, etc....

Am I right?
Title: Magnet types
Post by: noodleplugerine on July 03, 2007, 11:33:16 PM
Height, size and strength of a magnet also effects tone, I'm pretty sure, and the difference between pickups goes further than the type of magnet used and the number of coils.
Title: Magnet types
Post by: Iced Dragon on September 28, 2007, 07:07:50 PM
Quote from: Kilby
alnico are diffrent metals


Alnico is short for Aluminum, Nickel and Cobalt, which are the main components.
Title: Magnet types
Post by: Kilby on September 29, 2007, 09:48:20 AM
Quote from: Iced Dragon
Quote from: Kilby
alnico are diffrent metals


Alnico is short for Aluminum, Nickel and Cobalt, which are the main components.


I know, I couldn't be arsed to list them (there where several threads running around at the time regarding magnets)
Title: Re: Magnet types
Post by: antosimoni on October 04, 2007, 01:23:29 PM
Quote from: Tim

...
Alnico IV is probably the best vintage tone IMHO(for humbuckers) and along with II and III was used in the earliest PAFs-this is a fact and not myth as we've had them analysed and a collegue of mine has also seen original Gibson purchase orders that clearly state AIV bar stock being purchased.The tone of AIV is balanced and extremely organic, it produces the most authentic vintage tone and sits better in slightly hotter vintage winds than AII which tends to get very soft in the bass and highs if used incorrectly.
...


Tim, I always sponsor your products and I found 'em great but can you please give us some proof of that?
thanks a lot
Title: Magnet types
Post by: Tim on October 15, 2007, 04:12:43 PM
Ask Gibson historian Walter Carter to look up the purchase orders for the mid to late '50s for magnet bar stock or ask Tom Holmes(ex Gibson) who's also seen the records which show Alnico IV bar stock being purchased during this period.
The X ray spectrograph analysis showed a 1959  PAF humbucker magnet as being Alnico IV-I don't think it's possible to attach the graphs here in the forum but I'll see if there's a way it can be done.
Title: Magnet types
Post by: Jazz Rock on October 16, 2007, 12:00:04 AM
Really great post Tim... but what about Alnico 8?

I heard here and there that they are a good alternative to ceramic when you are looking for high output but a bit more "soul" if I may put it this way.
Title: Magnet types
Post by: ericsabbath on October 16, 2007, 04:30:10 AM
Quote from: Jazz Rock
Really great post Tim... but what about Alnico 8?

I heard here and there that they are a good alternative to ceramic when you are looking for high output but a bit more "soul" if I may put it this way.


they're great to bring life for pickups that lack mids
sounds a bit brighter than alnico 5 and darker than a ceramic
tons of mids, specially low mids, which gives a very modern feel for some pickups
pickups that are already too hot winded and that already have lot of low mids can get a bit muddy, so it may improve some pickups and screw others
but i bet Tim can make even a pickup with refrigerator magnet and wound with guitar strings sound clear and awesome :lol:
Title: Magnet types
Post by: 5F6-A on November 16, 2007, 09:17:23 PM
Quote from: noodleplugerine
Height, size and strength of a magnet also effects tone, I'm pretty sure, and the difference between pickups goes further than the type of magnet used and the number of coils.


Absolutely. Type of wire, type of insulation, metal parts, alloyes, winding patterns... all those and more add to make pickups so unique.
Title: Re: Magnet types
Post by: fps_dean on January 21, 2008, 04:56:04 AM
Quote from: antosimoni
Quote from: Tim

...
Alnico IV is probably the best vintage tone IMHO(for humbuckers) and along with II and III was used in the earliest PAFs-this is a fact and not myth as we've had them analysed and a collegue of mine has also seen original Gibson purchase orders that clearly state AIV bar stock being purchased.The tone of AIV is balanced and extremely organic, it produces the most authentic vintage tone and sits better in slightly hotter vintage winds than AII which tends to get very soft in the bass and highs if used incorrectly.
...


Tim, I always sponsor your products and I found 'em great but can you please give us some proof of that?
thanks a lot


There is this website that mentions they used various Alnico magnets:

http://www.flyingvintage.com/gcmag/PAF.html

As is this one:

http://www.provide.net/~cfh/paf.html

I found another website once that went into great detail on the variations Gibson used and what to expect in each year and so forth.  If I can find it, I will post.
Title: Magnet types
Post by: ESPImperium on March 05, 2008, 11:33:59 PM
Could you also post the diffrences between Ceramic magnet types, and the diffrent types of wire that are used in the making of a pickup as well as that would be really intresting to read.
Title: Magnet types
Post by: shaulin on July 02, 2008, 09:21:38 PM
What about Alnico 8 & 9?
anyone got info about those?

I see Seymour Duncan are using the Alnico 8  on the SH-15
Title: Re: Magnet types
Post by: EEF13 on July 09, 2008, 01:14:25 AM
when using a ceramic or alnico 8 (or any hot alnico pickups) pickup I use a Solid State amp for cleans and an a/b switch to a tube amp for overdrive distortion. when using other alnico pickups i play right through a tube amp.
Title: Re: Magnet types
Post by: Will on July 09, 2008, 01:21:12 AM
We use ceramic 8 as do most pickup makers
My new MM has ceramic IV I believe, or so it says on the spec thing. Any info about this type?
Title: some info about alnico 8
Post by: ericsabbath on July 21, 2008, 04:32:22 PM
I found this on metroamp forum:

Quote
"Actually, on the Alnico 8's, it quite the opposite. I learned about Alnico 8 from Lynn Collins several years ago.
They're an extremely sweet sounding magnet. Very sensitive, so they sustain for a very long time. You've got to lower them a bit further than Alnico 5, but once you find "the spot" there's nothing like 'em.
They're pretty expensive though, that's why I dropped them from my line of pickups.

Wolfe"

"I've used A8 fairly extensively and trust me, it's nothing like A5. It is much, much stronger, way more output, and has much more midrange, very full, while A5 tends to have a mid-scoop. The top end is a lot like A2, vintagey and sweet. Overall it combines the best qualities of ceramic, A2 and A5 without any of their weaknesses. To me, it's a very viable alternative to ceramics for a customer wanting a high-output pu with a naturally bright guitar who's sick of the harshness that ceramics sometimes have (depending on the wind and the guitar it goes in).

Its main weakness is the magnetic pull is very strong (maybe even stronger than ceramic) so you could never use it in a neck pu. You even have to back your bridge pu away from the strings a little more than normal because it will cut into the sustain just a touch. It has another semi-weakness in that the bass response is really huge -- not flabby, but not quite as tight as ceramic, at least to my ear -- but depending on the application, this is as likely to be a strength as a weakness.

I suppose you could degauss it a touch to tame it some, but it might lose some top end. I will try it at some point.

Another alternative is Alnico 6, but that's another story..."


"I'll throw out what I'm thinking.

Alnico 5 cast is 12,500 Gauss (flux) and 640 Oersteds (field intensity). The strength of the magnet is flux times field intensity. So the magnet strength is 8 million Gauss-Oersteds.

Alnico 8 cast is a lower 8,300 Gauss of flux, but is way up at 1650 Oerseteds of field intenisty. The magnet strength is 13.7 million Guass-Oersteds, or 71% stronger than Alnico V sintered, and 277% stronger than Alnico II sintered.

If the relationship between inductance/output and magnet/core strength given a stable dc resisttance were linear, a pickup with an alnico V magnet that - all else the same - gets a Alnico 8 magnet will have 71% more output. But I assume the relationship is not linear. I wonder what the relative relationship is."

"Certainly the A8 has a much stronger field. As mentioned above the field strength to output ratio is not linear though. In totally non scientific testing I would say your ear will hear a 10% to 15% output increase. You will also hear a fairly noticeable tone difference. More bite, no scooped mids and tighter bottom end. Somewhat like a ceramic but not harsh or ice picky."
Title: Re: Magnet types
Post by: il˙ti on July 21, 2008, 04:40:37 PM
Tim would disagree that A8 has none of the drawbacks of A5, A2 and ceramic. The thing is, BKPs with those standard magnets don't have the drawbacks that many other makers' pickups do. BKPs ceramic pups don't sound harsh and/or sterile, alnico 5 BKPs still sound tight and not scooped etc. There's a reason Tim chooses A5 and ceramic over A8 in the standard models. He has once said that A8 compresses the tone even more than ceramic and that sacrifices dynamics and organicness.
Title: Re: Magnet types
Post by: ericsabbath on July 22, 2008, 02:25:55 PM
Tim would disagree that A8 has none of the drawbacks of A5, A2 and ceramic. The thing is, BKPs with those standard magnets don't have the drawbacks that many other makers' pickups do. BKPs ceramic pups don't sound harsh and/or sterile, alnico 5 BKPs still sound tight and not scooped etc. There's a reason Tim chooses A5 and ceramic over A8 in the standard models. He has once said that A8 compresses the tone even more than ceramic and that sacrifices dynamics and organicness.

i think you didn't get what those guys said
magnets have a huge influence in the sound of a pickup
of course an alnico 5 pickup can sound middy and a ceramic can sound not harsh, but using specific winding patterns for that
those characteristics are used to describe how a "generic" pickup (with usual original paf style winding) is influenced by each type of magnet
if those characteristics didn't count, why the hell people would use different kinds of magnets?
from my short experience with alnico 8, i'd agree with every word and it doesn't mean that any alnico 8 pickup will be superior to any other pickup
each magnet and winding combination will result in a different tone and dynamic response
just a matter of taste if you like the final result or not

just a curiosity
i've read that eddie van halen used his 70's ibanez destroyer (explorer copy) on his first 2 albums
that guitar had a ibanez super 70 pickup, which was an alnico 8 PAF style humbucker
I don't hear anything special on those albums, but most guitarrists love that tone
Title: Re: Magnet types
Post by: il˙ti on July 22, 2008, 03:37:47 PM
I wasn't disagreeing with the characteristics of A8 or any of the other magnet types, just explaining why BKP don't use A8 that much.
Title: Re: Magnet types
Post by: Bradock PI on March 24, 2009, 11:23:43 PM
Ever tried making pickups with rare earth magnets ?

Of course you may need watch the amp inputs !!!!
Title: Re: Magnet types
Post by: MDV on March 24, 2009, 11:32:42 PM
There are neodynium pickups out there. Apparently they're very natural and accoustic sounding. I dont know if Tims used them or not.
Title: Re: Magnet types
Post by: Bradock PI on March 24, 2009, 11:47:16 PM
The only ones I have seen are for acoustics but I am no expert on guitars
Title: Re: Magnet types
Post by: ericsabbath on March 28, 2009, 11:48:22 PM
I had a neodymium speaker that worked pretty good with some amps

very articulated and responsive

but I don't think that would be a good thing for a pickup
unless it was a really really thin magnet bar, and it should be encapsuled
Title: Re: Magnet types
Post by: Bradock PI on April 10, 2009, 11:50:29 PM
When I read about this

http://www.richtonemusic.co.uk/guitars-1/electric-guitars-2/taylor-classic-solidbody-electric-guitar-natural-617.html

I noticed taylor have used neodynium magnets in the pickups for their solid bodies so I was wrong !

Anyone tried one? I am sure their pickups can be improved!!
Title: Re: Magnet types
Post by: thewererabbit on May 26, 2009, 12:58:52 AM
which magnets are better suited to low tuning/ high gain?? Is it the magnet or more the winding?? I've had good experience with ceramic so far, quite sharp and tight, but I'm wondering what some different alnico maggies will give me.

These will in an iceman, mahogany body, rosewood fretboard through a framus cobra and a marshall 1960bv cab, if that helps.
thank you
mel
Title: Re: Magnet types
Post by: ericsabbath on May 31, 2009, 12:24:33 AM
which magnets are better suited to low tuning/ high gain?? Is it the magnet or more the winding?? I've had good experience with ceramic so far, quite sharp and tight, but I'm wondering what some different alnico maggies will give me.

These will in an iceman, mahogany body, rosewood fretboard through a framus cobra and a marshall 1960bv cab, if that helps.
thank you
mel

hey man!
welcome to the forum

I have only mahogany guitars too and a framus cobra (that's completely modded now)
are you using some kind of boost?
I love the painkiller, cold sweat and the miracle man through the cobra
this amp prefers ceramic pups, imo
but heavily boosted alnico models work really nice too
I currently use a late 70's maxon EQ as a booster
I guess a mid boosted black dog would work fine
the holy diver with stock alnico 5 + mxr wylde overdrive was pretty good
but what that amp really NEEDS is greenback speakers
never was able to get a true good tone from any other speaker
the V30s makes it even more dry and a bit harsh
it just does not breathe like it does through greenbacks
Title: Re: Magnet types
Post by: WezV on July 31, 2009, 10:31:47 PM
Ever tried making pickups with rare earth magnets ?

Of course you may need watch the amp inputs !!!!

never got around to trying these out
http://www.q-tuner.com
Title: Re: Magnet types
Post by: Tomcaster on September 06, 2009, 02:31:30 PM
I must say I am stunned how much magnet types for Strat pups make a difference. Alnico III sounds soooo round and 50s while Alnico V is pure Stevie Ray or Jimi.
Title: Re: Magnet types
Post by: ShredHeadJHJ on December 03, 2010, 12:53:49 AM
just a curiosity
i've read that eddie van halen used his 70's ibanez destroyer (explorer copy) on his first 2 albums
that guitar had a ibanez super 70 pickup, which was an alnico 8 PAF style humbucker
I don't hear anything special on those albums, but most guitarrists love that tone

I think his tone on the first album was epic :) Wasn't the main factor to his sound the Soldano modded Plexi, or am I wrong...?
Title: Re: Magnet types
Post by: ericsabbath on December 07, 2010, 02:35:24 AM
just a curiosity
i've read that eddie van halen used his 70's ibanez destroyer (explorer copy) on his first 2 albums
that guitar had a ibanez super 70 pickup, which was an alnico 8 PAF style humbucker
I don't hear anything special on those albums, but most guitarrists love that tone

I think his tone on the first album was epic :) Wasn't the main factor to his sound the Soldano modded Plexi, or am I wrong...?

that's just a regular late 60's marshall super lead
that amp had a lot of work done over the time by several guys (rudy leiren, jose arredondo, stevie fryette, van weelden, cerrem, john suhr, mike soldano, dave friedman, reinhold bogner, mark cameron, matt bruck and others), but wasn't tonally modded
it had a lot of parts replaced, but vintage correct stock values

Title: Re: Magnet types
Post by: ShredHeadJHJ on December 07, 2010, 02:49:33 AM
. . . that amp had a lot of work done over the time by several guys (rudy leiren, jose arredondo, stevie fryette, van weelden, cerrem, john suhr, mike soldano, dave friedman, reinhold bogner, mark cameron, matt bruck and others), but wasn't tonally modded
it had a lot of parts replaced, but vintage correct stock values

Uggghhhh... What...? Did they just like change his tubes out or something??  :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Title: Re: Magnet types
Post by: ericsabbath on December 07, 2010, 06:22:13 AM
. . . that amp had a lot of work done over the time by several guys (rudy leiren, jose arredondo, stevie fryette, van weelden, cerrem, john suhr, mike soldano, dave friedman, reinhold bogner, mark cameron, matt bruck and others), but wasn't tonally modded
it had a lot of parts replaced, but vintage correct stock values

Uggghhhh... What...? Did they just like change his tubes out or something??  :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

with all the cr@p that Eddie did to his amps live, I bet he used to melt at least a transformer per week
 :lol:
Title: Re: Magnet types
Post by: ras on December 24, 2010, 09:52:46 AM
So if ceramics have bismuth or strontium carbonates then you have a dimagnetic in direct interaction with the ferromagnetic ferrous/ferric oxide.  Interesting I would think that this would create huge problems inside the magnet itself as the two forces would shear it but if the fields are aligned in such a manner during the sintering process you have huge huge flux from the ceramic material.  Has BPK thought of using a neodymium or other rare earth magnet in experimentation?  I have no idea what size or shape you could use considering the field created by Nd could probably interfere with string vibrations, maybe tiny amounts of Nd in a ceramic material or something like that could work.  I was a Nuclear Engineering and Physics major in college and these things just intrigue me, you get to see a 20+ Tesla magnet at the Francis Bitter lab where you have class about quantum physics and your interest gets piqued.  Enough propeller head talk, you guys make awesome pick ups that is all. :D
Title: Re: Magnet types
Post by: ericsabbath on February 02, 2011, 01:27:48 PM
wut  :?
Title: Re: Magnet types
Post by: MDV on February 15, 2011, 10:52:23 PM
Magnets, How the $%&# do they work?

I understood that....I'll get me coat...NEODYNIUMS GOT NO TOANEZ! (thats my answer and I'm sticking to it)
Title: Re: Magnet types
Post by: Alex on February 18, 2011, 03:10:42 PM
So if ceramics have bismuth or strontium carbonates then you have a dimagnetic in direct interaction with the ferromagnetic ferrous/ferric oxide.  Interesting I would think that this would create huge problems inside the magnet itself as the two forces would shear it but if the fields are aligned in such a manner during the sintering process you have huge huge flux from the ceramic material.  Has BPK thought of using a neodymium or other rare earth magnet in experimentation?  I have no idea what size or shape you could use considering the field created by Nd could probably interfere with string vibrations, maybe tiny amounts of Nd in a ceramic material or something like that could work.  I was a Nuclear Engineering and Physics major in college and these things just intrigue me, you get to see a 20+ Tesla magnet at the Francis Bitter lab where you have class about quantum physics and your interest gets piqued.  Enough propeller head talk, you guys make awesome pick ups that is all. :D

In my opinion for good tone you should forget the science behind it. Science and tone don't work together; too often the theory behind it doesn't fit with what you hear. Only your ears can measure if it's right or not.
Title: Re: Magnet types
Post by: ev1ltwin on February 18, 2011, 03:41:18 PM
Science and tone don't work together; too often the theory behind it doesn't fit with what you hear. Only your ears can measure if it's right or not.

wut
Title: Re: Magnet types
Post by: JacksonRR on February 24, 2011, 03:30:55 AM
Magnets, How the $%&# do they work?


Lol. I was pointed towards the most retarded "song" ever a few weeks back. That just made my freakin day, lol. I hate ICP.
Title: Re: Magnet types
Post by: MDV on March 01, 2011, 07:00:36 AM
Magnets, How the $%&# do they work?


Lol. I was pointed towards the most retarded "song" ever a few weeks back. That just made my freakin day, lol. I hate ICP.


I too hate ICP and have nothing but unremiting contempt for that song in particular.

I believe it was Dmoney that first introduced me to them, by saying 'magnets, how the..etc' in a thread that got into a bit of the basics of it.....I'd never heard of ICP, the song or the meme, thought it was a genuine question, so I proceeded to explain how magnets work :lol: (as best we currently know at least...or as best I kno w, rather)
Title: Re: Magnet types
Post by: davidian on March 05, 2011, 01:51:04 AM
Has anyone needed to swap out their magnets in BKPs? How would an Alnico 8 stand up against a Ceramic 8? I have a set of Aftermaths in my PRS Cu24 and was wondering if the A8 could round off the highs.
Title: Re: Magnet types
Post by: Alex on March 11, 2011, 10:39:18 AM
. . . that amp had a lot of work done over the time by several guys (rudy leiren, jose arredondo, stevie fryette, van weelden, cerrem, john suhr, mike soldano, dave friedman, reinhold bogner, mark cameron, matt bruck and others), but wasn't tonally modded
it had a lot of parts replaced, but vintage correct stock values

Uggghhhh... What...? Did they just like change his tubes out or something??  :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

with all the cr@p that Eddie did to his amps live, I bet he used to melt at least a transformer per week
 :lol:

BTW you do know that Eddie made some of those stories up, like the use of the Variac power thing? ;-)
Title: Re: Magnet types
Post by: ericsabbath on March 16, 2011, 04:07:57 PM
. . . that amp had a lot of work done over the time by several guys (rudy leiren, jose arredondo, stevie fryette, van weelden, cerrem, john suhr, mike soldano, dave friedman, reinhold bogner, mark cameron, matt bruck and others), but wasn't tonally modded
it had a lot of parts replaced, but vintage correct stock values

Uggghhhh... What...? Did they just like change his tubes out or something??  :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

with all the cr@p that Eddie did to his amps live, I bet he used to melt at least a transformer per week
 :lol:

BTW you do know that Eddie made some of those stories up, like the use of the Variac power thing? ;-)

not sure about the variac, but he did use the "dynamite" resistor (he thought it was a capacitor), probably wired as a resistive attenuator
I've read some stuff supposedly written by his old tech, that says he did use the variac as well
Title: Re: Magnet types
Post by: ericsabbath on March 16, 2011, 04:14:02 PM
Has anyone needed to swap out their magnets in BKPs? How would an Alnico 8 stand up against a Ceramic 8? I have a set of Aftermaths in my PRS Cu24 and was wondering if the A8 could round off the highs.

an alnico 8 bar will hardly have the same thickness of the aftermath ceramic magnet (4mm?)
you better sell it and order a proper model
I tried alnico 8 on a holy diver and it sucked the pickup juicy tone
it was good for that particular guitar (a Gibson SG), cause it needed a drier and brighter tone, but it didn't sound like a holy diver anymore
Title: Re: Magnet types
Post by: Alex on July 14, 2011, 02:05:38 PM
. . . that amp had a lot of work done over the time by several guys (rudy leiren, jose arredondo, stevie fryette, van weelden, cerrem, john suhr, mike soldano, dave friedman, reinhold bogner, mark cameron, matt bruck and others), but wasn't tonally modded
it had a lot of parts replaced, but vintage correct stock values

Uggghhhh... What...? Did they just like change his tubes out or something??  :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

with all the cr@p that Eddie did to his amps live, I bet he used to melt at least a transformer per week
 :lol:

BTW you do know that Eddie made some of those stories up, like the use of the Variac power thing? ;-)

not sure about the variac, but he did use the "dynamite" resistor (he thought it was a capacitor), probably wired as a resistive attenuator
I've read some stuff supposedly written by his old tech, that says he did use the variac as well

His "newest claim" (personally I think the guy is full of bullshitee anyway!) was that he never actually used it but was amused at how the "science" behind it developed by people trying to copy his sound. It apparently had been on a picture and people started asking about it. THat was in an interview in Guitar World around a year ago, when he unveiled his new "miracle" guitar.

The other big myth was about the pickup in his Frankenstrat (that wasn't in the GW story though). Apparently it had been a standard Seymour Duncan JB for quite a while. Read here:
http://www.independent.com/news/2011/jul/07/ride-seymour-duncan-special/
Title: Re: Magnet types
Post by: Telerocker on January 02, 2012, 05:14:19 PM
Maybe a stupid question, but I couldn't find anything on the forum (or I didn't search thorougly), but why there are not AIV stratpickups? They're the Yardbirds for the tele's, I guess they could work for strats too.
Title: Re: Magnet types
Post by: Tero on January 10, 2012, 01:18:55 PM
I have to say that AIV made me think my sound and tones whole new way. After trying out a set of Mules for the first time in a Les Paul... I was sold. Ever since I have been an AIV-trustee, freak, you name it. Thanks for Tim bringing AIV back to the roster. Before that I only had tried AII and AV.

Now I use mainly a mixture of AII (Stormy Monday as neck pickup) and AIV (The Mule bridge pickup) on my 3 Les Pauls. One custom LP is fitted with Mule/Abraxas-set, so they are both AlNiCo IV.

Love it! Love 'em!
Title: Re: Magnet types
Post by: Telerocker on January 15, 2012, 12:28:29 AM
I have to say that AIV made me think my sound and tones whole new way. After trying out a set of Mules for the first time in a Les Paul... I was sold. Ever since I have been an AIV-trustee, freak, you name it. Thanks for Tim bringing AIV back to the roster. Before that I only had tried AII and AV.

Now I use mainly a mixture of AII (Stormy Monday as neck pickup) and AIV (The Mule bridge pickup) on my 3 Les Pauls. One custom LP is fitted with Mule/Abraxas-set, so they are both AlNiCo IV.

Love it! Love 'em!

That's why I made this question. I have Mules in a Saint Blues Missisippi Bluesmaster. The dynamics, depth, articulation and balance are superb.
Title: Re: Magnet types
Post by: Gibson 1964 on January 26, 2012, 12:33:31 AM
The only ones I have seen are for acoustics but I am no expert on guitars

I visited Bill Lawrence's workshop. (Wilde Pickups) he uses neodynium and I have qtuners as well. Suprisingly I would say they do not have an acoustic sound.
Title: Re: Magnet types
Post by: FernandoDuarte on March 12, 2012, 02:15:31 PM
Hummmm let me ask something:

The Aftermath has 3 different sizes of magnets... So, what would happen in a pickup if there are 2 bars instead of one - treble strings AII and bass strings with AIV?
Title: Re: Magnet types
Post by: ericsabbath on April 04, 2012, 05:06:12 AM
the bars are parallel to the regular bar, not pieces placed in the center
you could mix different types, but they would affect all strings, of course
the gibson iommi pickup has alnico 2 and ceramic bars,for example
Title: Re: Magnet types
Post by: davidflower7782 on April 13, 2012, 05:15:51 PM
Fantastic publish, Tim, very useful to have around!  Cool
Title: Re: Magnet types
Post by: bukko on June 24, 2012, 11:32:23 PM
I have ceramic magnets in the bridge nailbomb on my Strat and it sounds amazing clean in all coil combinations :)
Title: Re: Magnet types
Post by: dark order flying V on October 12, 2012, 04:02:16 AM
the bars are parallel to the regular bar, not pieces placed in the center
you could mix different types, but they would affect all strings, of course
the gibson iommi pickup has alnico 2 and ceramic bars,for example

WUT!!! I am buying an Iommi epiphone SG for the pickups mainly and the fact it has 24fretts....

You saying these things have a combination of alnico and ceramic mags under the coils?????????
Title: Re: Magnet types
Post by: ericsabbath on October 14, 2012, 11:47:25 PM
the bars are parallel to the regular bar, not pieces placed in the center
you could mix different types, but they would affect all strings, of course
the gibson iommi pickup has alnico 2 and ceramic bars,for example

WUT!!! I am buying an Iommi epiphone SG for the pickups mainly and the fact it has 24fretts....

You saying these things have a combination of alnico and ceramic mags under the coils?????????

yes
Title: Re: Magnet types
Post by: Toe-Knee on October 15, 2012, 06:39:48 AM
the bars are parallel to the regular bar, not pieces placed in the center
you could mix different types, but they would affect all strings, of course
the gibson iommi pickup has alnico 2 and ceramic bars,for example

There are also a few other places you can get hybrid mag pickups.

In other news. The nailbomb sounds brutal with a neo magnet.

WUT!!! I am buying an Iommi epiphone SG for the pickups mainly and the fact it has 24fretts....

You saying these things have a combination of alnico and ceramic mags under the coils?????????
Title: Re: Magnet types
Post by: dark order flying V on October 15, 2012, 07:10:27 AM
the bars are parallel to the regular bar, not pieces placed in the center
you could mix different types, but they would affect all strings, of course
the gibson iommi pickup has alnico 2 and ceramic bars,for example

WUT!!! I am buying an Iommi epiphone SG for the pickups mainly and the fact it has 24fretts....

You saying these things have a combination of alnico and ceramic mags under the coils?????????

yes


No freeeeeeakiiiin way dude! This is a first.... combo of alnico and ceramic!!!!
Title: Re: Magnet types
Post by: Toe-Knee on October 15, 2012, 04:01:37 PM
the bars are parallel to the regular bar, not pieces placed in the center
you could mix different types, but they would affect all strings, of course
the gibson iommi pickup has alnico 2 and ceramic bars,for example

WUT!!! I am buying an Iommi epiphone SG for the pickups mainly and the fact it has 24fretts....

You saying these things have a combination of alnico and ceramic mags under the coils?????????

yes


No freeeeeeakiiiin way dude! This is a first.... combo of alnico and ceramic!!!!

There are quite a few companies out there who do hybrid magnet pickups. Bulldog & the creamery are the first that spring to mind
Title: Re: Magnet types
Post by: jaydentyler25 on November 12, 2012, 07:03:58 PM
I have ceramic magnets in the bridge nailbomb on my Strat and it noise amazing clean in all coil combinations

tongkatali (http://www.naturaformula.com/)
tongkat ali sale (http://www.naturaformula.com/)
Title: Re: Magnet types
Post by: TheyCallMeVolume on November 12, 2012, 08:04:31 PM
Wow the bots have even learned about the pickups! The apocalypse is upon us....
Title: Re: Magnet types
Post by: jaydentyler25 on November 19, 2012, 07:38:45 AM
the bars are really parallel to the normal bar, not pieces placed inside the centre
you might blend different types, but they might affect every one of the strings, naturally
the gibson iommi pickup has alnico 2 as well as ceramic bars,for example
Title: Re: Magnet types
Post by: jaydentyler25 on November 25, 2012, 04:42:40 PM
Awesome the bots have actually discovered concerning the pickups! The apocalypse is on us....
Title: Re: Magnet types
Post by: TheyCallMeVolume on November 25, 2012, 04:47:09 PM
Should I be afraid?
Title: Re: Magnet types
Post by: ericsabbath on November 26, 2012, 10:07:27 AM
now that's creepy  :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Title: Re: Magnet types
Post by: TheyCallMeVolume on November 26, 2012, 03:35:25 PM
I think the bots are gonna come after me...
Title: Re: Magnet types
Post by: jaydentyler25 on December 02, 2012, 07:51:31 AM
the bars are really parallel to the regular bar, not components placed inside the centre
you might combine different kinds, however they would affect all strings, naturally
the gibson iommi pickup has alnico 2 and ceramic pubs,for example
Title: Re: Magnet types
Post by: stonehenge on December 04, 2012, 11:44:28 AM
So, back in the real world, how about someone, with skills I don't posses, taking something like a mule, and doing some clips with different magnets? May be interesting?
Title: Re: Magnet types
Post by: TheyCallMeVolume on December 04, 2012, 02:46:48 PM
Sounds cool. Not me though  :lol:
Title: Re: Magnet types
Post by: Studiostriver on March 09, 2013, 11:25:51 AM
Very informative.Thanks bro. :)
Title: Re: Magnet types
Post by: ridner on March 10, 2013, 02:56:25 PM
good info, thanks
Title: Re: Magnet types
Post by: CMSMMAGNETS on November 12, 2013, 09:42:10 AM
AlNiCo and Ceramic can used on pickup. And every type has its advantage. Jusy follow your feelings. Seymour Duncan made an interesting test. Use one guitar which assembles different magnets, playing the same song.

http://www.cmsmagnets.com/news_d.asp?id=577 (http://www.cmsmagnets.com/news_d.asp?id=577)
Title: Re: Magnet types
Post by: Dave Sloven on November 12, 2013, 09:57:06 AM
My eyes!!
Title: Re: Magnet types
Post by: p4vl on November 14, 2013, 11:10:35 PM
The Duncan JB is supposed to be much more usable with an Alnico 8. 

I tried an Alnico 9 in my BG Hellabucker (Alnico V stock) and it turned it into a Black Metal Chainsaw.  Very aggressive sounding, all mids and treble and angry as $%&# (then again, I've heard samples from other people swapping to Alnico 9 and the change wasn't that dramatic). 

Still, it was nice to jam on old Darkthrone and Emperor and actually sound somewhat accurate. 
Title: Re: Magnet types
Post by: everbeen on December 26, 2013, 07:04:53 AM
what about the neodymium magnets and smco magnets?
Title: Re: Magnet types
Post by: darrenw5094 on January 16, 2014, 02:11:51 AM
The Duncan JB is supposed to be much more usable with an Alnico 8.


Then why don't Seymour Duncan make them with the 8 mags??
Title: Re: Magnet types
Post by: Duck2587 on March 10, 2014, 10:21:15 PM
Alnico V all the way and ceramics.
Title: Re: Magnet types
Post by: Chazzy on April 30, 2015, 11:24:05 PM
What about alnico 8?
Title: Re: Magnet types
Post by: johnson on February 01, 2016, 10:52:18 PM
what about a Painkiller with an Alnico V?