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Author Topic: Low wattage heads  (Read 3906 times)

Gary

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Low wattage heads
« on: October 27, 2007, 08:54:38 PM »
I'm toying with the idea of getting a low wattage head and 2x12 as my main rig. The sort of thing I'm looking at is Orange Tiny Terror, Marshall 20w, Suhr Badger, Cornell 18w Plexi etc. I know these cover a wide price range but that's not the issue at this stage. The problem is that it's impossible (at least for me) to judge gig volumes in a shop or a living room. So, does anyone here have experience of using a 15 - 20 watt amp live? (micing MAY be an option but I would prefer not to have to rely on it)

I wouldn't want to have to run it flat out as I need to be able to use a boost to add a touch of gain/ volume for solos.

For reference I am currently using a Fender HRD (40w) at around 1/2 - 2/3 volume with a hotplate at -8dB. I think the rule of thumb is that 1/2 the watts equates to -3dB which would mean that I could get away with 10 watts but I'm really only repeating what I've heard - not my personal knowledge or experience. Obviously I will try before I buy but for now I need to know if it's a viable option.

It may also help to know that the majority of our gigs are pubs with audiences of 30 - 50.

Look forward to your input.

HTH AMPS

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Low wattage heads
« Reply #1 on: October 27, 2007, 09:27:23 PM »
I gigged with a Hiwatt 2x10 combo around ten years ago.  It had a pair of EL84s and Fane speakers.  Cranked up it sounded pretty good but I always struggled to be heard above the drums even when I had the amp raised up on bar-stools.  

People always told me I was a bit quiet too - bear in mind that Hiwatts are pretty pokey in the midrange a 'cut' very well.

I had no clean headroom either - I sold it and got a Marshall JTM60, then a 30th Anniversary AC30 (sounded more like a Marshall and was very unreliable - the shop I sold it to said it caught on fire a few weeks later), then a Fender Tonemaster, a Marshall Bluesbreaker, a mkII Selmer T&B (fantastic amp), another mkII Selmer T&B head as a spare, a Laney Supergroup 50w head, then another Laney Supergroup 50w head (early topmount model) as a spare, a HiWatt DR103 (insanely loud, but gorgeous tone), then a 1980 Marshall 2203 head, an '83 1959-model 'plexi', a '67 plexi (the best amp I ever owned), then my current amp - a '76 Superbass that I've modded to '67 plexi specs and is amazing.  There were more amps than that along the way, but those are the ones I gigged with.

 :twisted:

Davey

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Low wattage heads
« Reply #2 on: October 27, 2007, 09:49:00 PM »
Laney LionHeart

GREAT amp. really like the tone it produces. from mellow jazz tones, to crunchy rock. for metal it needs a kick in the ass :)


volume vise, you can get away with sub 30W amps, in a live setting (i'm talking about hard rock and metal here, bear with me) BUT, you need to run it pretty hot and that will
A: saturate the amp a bit too much and it will choke out (your tone will suffer and it wont be as defined). you'll lose a lot of headroom. you'll find this with amps with 10 and less watts. as you can imagine it becomes less of an issue as you go up in power
B: cut down the life expectancy of the valves
C: some reliability issues may pop up, constantly having the amp on meltdown.

30W for a club is OK, but it needs to be miced, if it's anything less than a 4x12, because the cone of noise coming from it, wont cover the audience. this is especially bad, when you got a 1x12 combo, sittting on the floor. the 3rd row wont hear anything but the drummer and vocals. though, this isnt particulary tied to the amp, but the cab moreso. with smaller amps, it's a question of being able to push the speakers enough.

my opinion. a 50W amp, with a 2x12 will cover smaller clubs, while for the bigger venues you'll need a 4x12 (though if the owner sees you lugging that 'huge' half stack through the door, he'll ask you where you're going and then you'll have to suffer the consequences by playing though a 1x12 spider or something like that... ugh. so sometimes less is more. at least you'll be able to play your own amp, if you got a 2x12)
50W because, it will get good enough tones in the 1st 3rd of the volume scale, for small venues and still wont be too loud, for bigger venues, you can crank it to 8 and sound like demos ascended from hell and started to obliterate the audience  :twisted:
at least that's the deal with my laney. YMMW

as far as those hot rod fenders go.. they got two settings. cant hear shyt and $%&# THAT'S LOUD!  :lol: good blues rock tone though

hope this helps

hamfist

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Low wattage heads
« Reply #3 on: October 27, 2007, 10:27:08 PM »
Gary,
  I agree with the other guy's comments. A 20 watter will not cope with an un-miked gig with a moderately loud band. Miked, it would be fine, but un-miked - no way. Personally I'd be looking at something of at least 30 (tube) Watts plus.
  The cab and speakers also make a huge difference. An amp through V30's will sound almost twice as loud as through  G12M's, for example, because of the relative efficiencies of the two speakers.
 
Alan

hunter

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Low wattage heads
« Reply #4 on: October 27, 2007, 11:07:51 PM »
Volume can be very different on different amps with similar wattage.

I gigged with the Tiny Terror once and it was OK, but I wished I had had a bit more oomph.

On the other hand, a Vox AC30 can be pretty damn loud at its 30W, so it's hard to come with generic rules or sth ...
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Henk

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« Reply #5 on: October 28, 2007, 11:25:19 AM »
In my intensive gigging days i always made sure i had more then enough headroom. Even my 100w amp was smoking so often i didnt dare doing it otherwise. Big gigs are mostly mic'd trough PA but often when i played in smaller size clubs or bars and the place got packed i found myself needing alot more volume then when the place was only half full, especially when the ceiling was low( headroom?? LOL ).

Still, if you want to burn your amp the only thing i can imagine is to take an extra 2x12 with you, so you can switch to 4x12 if needed. When i played a 2x12 combo i often took a 2x12 monitor which i could but on its top next to the combo if needed. Not the best solution maybe, but it worked well enough i guess.

Loud speakers do make alot of difference.
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hunter

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Low wattage heads
« Reply #6 on: October 28, 2007, 12:54:18 PM »
seems there is a new player in this niche now ... tempting tempting

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viking

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Re :
« Reply #7 on: October 28, 2007, 03:45:01 PM »
Yeah,that's really tempting...must be quite expensive...with EL84/6V6 switch and power scale?I'll go check the site,now..! :)

viking

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« Reply #8 on: October 28, 2007, 04:02:37 PM »
Hunter,where did you find it?I don't see anything on the Egnater web site..

sgmypod

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Low wattage heads
« Reply #9 on: October 28, 2007, 04:09:04 PM »
says when I looked and found somewhere else is for GC? only
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