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Author Topic: Floyd rose and T-O-M project for ****erstrat - other ideas?  (Read 2856 times)

plastercaster

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Floyd rose and T-O-M project for ****erstrat - other ideas?
« on: November 27, 2007, 01:28:51 PM »
Hi all,
A while back I was seized by GAS and wasted £80 on a MIJ, thru neck charvel with a maple fretboard.
except it wasn't thru neck, wasn't made in japan, and wasn't a charvel.
There was a 2-bolt neck joint sculpted with filler, a plywood body, an awful floyd rose, and an unbelievable thick finish (literally 5mm in some places, eventually removed with a metal file).
It was H/S/S, but the singles were gone and the HB had been replaced with a schaller. only 5 of the tuners were working.

I think you get the picture. Anyway, I'm hoping to find a silver lining by turning it into my "experiment" guitar. here are some of the ideas, what do you think of them? completely impractical? done before? any advice? any other ideas?

1) Floyd rose and recessed tune-o-matic bridge with graphite saddles to allow huge dives and vibrato, but keep some of the tone and sustain of a fixed-bridge (not all of it, obviously, but an improvement over a lone floyd). Kind of like a bigsby, but with a floyd instead of the sprung bar. The floyd would have a tremel-no, so I could use the guitar as a hardtail most of the time. I could also (on another guitar) use fanned frets and a floyd this way, if I cut the saddles myself and didn't mess around with the action and intonation too much.

2) 4 pickups (say a P90 and a tele at bridge and neck) with Two SG jacks (although I don't know exactly how the switching would work) and some geeky wiring to allow me to run the guitar in stereo, with different pickups into each channel of a rig- so youd have one really roaring, and the other on the brink of break-up allowing you the thickess of AC/DC (say), without a second guitarist. how far apart would they have to be relatively free of magnetic interference?

3) Tuners rotated 90 degrees and mounted on the side of the headstock, classical style.
http://www.rockingchairs.net/Pages/Classical%20Guitar%20headstock.jpg
With the whole array covered by a cap with space for the strings to pass through, giving the appearance that there were no tuners. This would just look cool really. but would it destroy the tuners and mess up the angle over the nut, ruining sustain/attack/whatever?

4) Finally, what about a theremin built in, with the volume antenna in between the bridge and neck pups (although we're rapidly running out of space there :oops: ...) and the pitch antenna running up the neck with the trussrod (to 12th fret say). the theremin audio output could come out of (another) seperate jack. I suppose the obvious problem here is possible interference between the strings, frets, pickups and theremin itself (both ways), even if you could fit the antennae in. I suppose you could build one of the antennae just above where the selector switch is (on a strat), but it wouldn't be quite as cool.

Anyway, end of rambling essay.

younger members may have guessed I'm supposed to be revising today.

what do you think?
Feline Custom, Fender MIJ mustang bass
Orange rocker 30
VHII and Mississippi queen

mecca777

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Re: Floyd rose and T-O-M project for ****erstrat - other ide
« Reply #1 on: November 27, 2007, 01:44:22 PM »
Quote from: plastercaster
1) Floyd rose and recessed tune-o-matic bridge with graphite saddles to allow huge dives and vibrato, but keep some of the tone and sustain of a fixed-bridge (not all of it, obviously, but an improvement over a lone floyd). Kind of like a bigsby, but with a floyd instead of the sprung bar. The floyd would have a tremel-no, so I could use the guitar as a hardtail most of the time. I could also (on another guitar) use fanned frets and a floyd this way, if I cut the saddles myself and didn't mess around with the action and intonation too much.

This is doomed to failure, I'm afraid; there is a massive, massive difference between the saddle rotation in a Bigsby and a Floyd. The minute you pushed the bar down, the strings would lift clean off the saddles of the T-O-M; pull the bar up and they'd almost certainly be sawing their way into the saddles. It's a strong image, and I understand the attraction, but the fulcrum effect of a Floyd (or any other Strat-derived tremolo) would never work this way.

Still, I got excited for a second when I read your idea until that occurred to me. And I love guitars with mismatched arrays of pickups, so I say go for your second idea!

Will

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Floyd rose and T-O-M project for ****erstrat - other ideas?
« Reply #2 on: November 27, 2007, 02:22:49 PM »
Some pretty crazy idea's there. Especially like the pickup one.

Just checking first, does the guitar actually play ok in the first place?  worth all this planned money?

Kahler hybrid for the bridge maybe? Wez has got one going in his explorer project I think

plastercaster

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Floyd rose and T-O-M project for ****erstrat - other ideas?
« Reply #3 on: November 27, 2007, 02:55:20 PM »
No, the guitar is rubbish, worth nothing, and I don't want it.

Any mods would be done with spare, scrounged and second hand bits, cheap as possible, just to see if they work - certainly nothing in the same financial ballpark as a kahler. Any good ones can be worked into other guitars later, with care and decent quality components.

I wanted to throw the ideas out there just to see if they were remotely likely- no point wasting time and effort on buying a router and reworking my bridge just to find the idea is basically flawed, as mecca pointed out. I suppose I could still use a bar accross the strings

to keep the angle over the saddles the same, even when diving, but I'm not sure how I'd avoid sawing the saddles up- even if it was dive only, there's still be friction as I pulled up. I suppose I could use titanium saddles, nickle wound strings and plenty of lube, but thats costly (well, the titanium is) and they'll still need replacing regularly.

2 votes for the stereo pickups- I'll have a better look into it. My problem there would be splitting the output of the coil between 2 different switches, but thats bound to impact negatively on tone (Not much point doubling the number of pickups if half the tone is lost becuase of the switching arrangement)- and i dont want a switch on each Pup sending the signal left, right or off- too ugly and overcomplicated.

Anybody with a better comprehension of wiring care to suggest how I might go about this? I want any pickup into any channel, - not a limiting P90 on channel 1, tele on channel 2- I want to have a p'up selector for each channel so I can have any combo. and it gets worse if I want to run a combination in series/parallel.
Feline Custom, Fender MIJ mustang bass
Orange rocker 30
VHII and Mississippi queen

blue

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Floyd rose and T-O-M project for ****erstrat - other ideas?
« Reply #4 on: November 27, 2007, 03:13:52 PM »
you can get tune o matic bridges with roller saddles pretty cheap on e-bay.  i have one on a Les Paul with a Duesenberg Les Trem and it works quite well. of course, it doesn't have anything like the travel of a Floyd Rose, but the bridge should still work the same, if you ever get around to trying it.

personally, i doubt that this Floyd/ T.O.M thing is practical, but i'd love to see how it works out if you do try it!
cry HAVOC!! and let slip the pigs of war!!!

plastercaster

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Floyd rose and T-O-M project for ****erstrat - other ideas?
« Reply #5 on: November 27, 2007, 03:27:34 PM »
Quote from: blue
you can get tune o matic bridges with roller saddles pretty cheap on e-bay.  i have one on a Les Paul with a Duesenberg Les Trem and it works quite well. of course, it doesn't have anything like the travel of a Floyd Rose, but the bridge should still work the same, if you ever get around to trying it.

personally, i doubt that this Floyd/ T.O.M thing is practical, but i'd love to see how it works out if you do try it!


Good idea- I think they'd be a good deal more practical than slippy saddles, and only about a tenner. I'll buy roller, graphite, steel and titanium, and then see which one is best in terms of lifespan and tuning stability.
actually *checks prices* just roller for now- graphite is £20 and titanium £40
the trouble would be, with moving parts in the saddle, at what point does it become more beneficial to the tone to just have a good quality floyd?

This is (hopefully) the end product
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blue

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Floyd rose and T-O-M project for ****erstrat - other ideas?
« Reply #6 on: November 27, 2007, 04:39:58 PM »
an advantage i can see is that it makes intonation and action adjustment a lot easier since that would be handled by the tune o matic, rather than the fiddly (and very frustrating!) Floyd.

a disadvantage is that it maybe puts the actual whammy bar quite a long way away from your playing hand.
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plastercaster

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Floyd rose and T-O-M project for ****erstrat - other ideas?
« Reply #7 on: November 27, 2007, 05:05:25 PM »
When I use a whammy bar I tend to hold it near the bend with my 3 and 4th fingers so I dont really need to have a really long arm.

A TOM would allow easier intonation with parallel frets, but my plan was to have a small fan (25"-25.5"), with the parallel frets at 7th, so the TOM would be tilted 1/4" further from the nut at the bass end. Because the saddles move  perpendicular to the studs, rather than parallel to the strings, the string would move towards the left (looking at the guitar straight on) when you shorten the intonation. are there any 3D adjustable saddles?
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VHII and Mississippi queen

FELINEGUITARS

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Floyd rose and T-O-M project for ****erstrat - other ideas?
« Reply #8 on: November 27, 2007, 05:41:29 PM »
Please post pictures so we can see what it is like and what the workable options might be in reality - makes the speculation much more possible
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WezV

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Floyd rose and T-O-M project for ****erstrat - other ideas?
« Reply #9 on: November 27, 2007, 07:58:06 PM »
Quote from: Will

Kahler hybrid for the bridge maybe? Wez has got one going in his explorer project I think


really need to get that one finished dont I!!!


I agree with jonathan - giove us some pics of the current state