Author Topic: tube screamers before amps (Read 5928 times)

JDC · « **on:** February 22, 2008, 01:36:20 AM »

n00b questions again

would I be right in thinking sticking a tube screamer before an amp increases output to the amp and also increases compression?

and if so, why not just put a compression pedal in the fx loop instead?

what settings would you use on a tube screamer? (I'm guessing input full, drive none, tone middle)

and how does the EQ in the FX loop trick tighten and clean up an amp? and what kind of settings would you use on it?

Hell Hound · « **Reply #1 on:** February 22, 2008, 07:46:27 AM »

The TS9 makes the amp tighter but not louder (it does it mainly by cutting bass) a compressor would never do that and will basicly kill your dynamic.
An EQ in the loop is very effective to correct some part of the tone you don't like :)

I'd get a goood true bypass TS9 if I were you (I have a clone myslef, handmade, TBP, optmised bass, etc...)

ericsabbath · « **Reply #2 on:** February 22, 2008, 08:12:17 AM »

i prefer the wylde overdrive
it pushes the amp a lot harder than a screamer and doesn't cut any frequency
the gain knob can make it sound noisy, but works great with gain on zero

indysmith · « **Reply #3 on:** February 22, 2008, 08:56:27 AM »

with mine i have all the controls at midday atm, this changes pretty much every time i use it though... :P

Elliot · « **Reply #4 on:** February 22, 2008, 10:11:58 AM »

With my modded TS7 - I usually have everything at 1 o'clock - sometimes turning the tone down if I want a darker tone.

gwEm · « **Reply #5 on:** February 22, 2008, 10:34:02 AM »

tube screamers are definately cool for solos and leads i think. the diode clipping, general amplification, and EQ characteristics of the pedal all make its sound.

i brought a 'soundtank' TS5 and modded it with a Monte Allums kit. It sounds absolutely diamond - but impossible to use live due to the poor quality of the plastic housing and actual stomp switch.

one of the maxon reissues has true bypass. might be worth a look, and then mod it to the classic spec if needed. thats what i'd do anyway - that or a BYOC job.

Roobubba · « **Reply #6 on:** February 22, 2008, 01:42:07 PM »

I was actually thinking of starting a thread just like this, but with slightly different emphasis.

I will see what I can do about putting an EQ in the effect loop (suggestions for what EQ to look at?), but also wondered about something like a tubescreamer to help tighten up the low end of the amp (even more, muahahah). 5150-II, Miracle man in an Ibanez RG470F.

Any suggestions greatly appreciated!

It'll be a week or two before I can play again, because about a month ago I was knocked off my bike and got a broken wrist. It's been pinned and I'm now out of plaster and doing physio to get the movement back. Left hand :(

In the mean time, I can concentrate on the tone ;)

Roo

Spitfire · « **Reply #7 on:** February 22, 2008, 01:51:54 PM »

i have the point of view, you get some good gear then take a lot of time with it to make it sound how you want... then if you want more gain, or a solo boost, get one of the pedals that does it (a good quality one of course) then make it work... a lot of peoples tone is converging now... sounding quite samey.. cos everyone gets the same stuff.. stuff easy to get a quick result from.

anyhoo.. for this, id try one of....

ibanez tubescreaner
boss OD, SD.. etc
MXR Zakk
and many many other overdrive pedals

TwilightOdyssey · « **Reply #8 on:** February 22, 2008, 02:49:26 PM »

JDC & Roobubba:

Hardly a n00b question -- actually, very good points are brought up.

I. Compression vs Overdrive
Without getting too detailed prior to my 1st cuppa joe today, compression and overdrive are two different effects and will give you different results.

Overdrive amplifies your guitar's signal going into the input stage of your amplifier causing the preamp to distort. On its own, an overdrive pedal does not contain much actual distortion. For this you would use a distortion pedal. That is why both a clean boost and overdrive will yield very similar results. (I'm oversimplifying the case here and can/will go into more detail about even/odd order harmonics, etc if you want)

General rule of thumb 1:
More preamp gain = less gain in front of the amp (overdrive/clean boost)
Less preamp gain = more gain in front of the amp (distortion pedal)

II. Does a compressor overdrive the amp, or does overdrive compress?

The short answer -- yes. But how they do this is different.

An overdrive blunts the actual soundwave, limiting its dynamic range into a kind of comprression, but it is not nearly the amount of compression you get from an actual compression unit.

A compressor severely limits the dynamic range of the signal prior to it hitting your amp's input stage.

Most compressors have an output control that may or may not overdrive the input of your amp (depends on many factors), but that signal is already compressed prior to reaching the amp's preamp stage; ie, not being compressed by the preamp. This sounds totally different than the type of compression you get from an overdriven preamp stage.

General rule of thumb 2:[/color]
Overdrive causes the preamp stage to compress by limiting the dynamic range of the input.
Compression limits the dynamic range of the signal prior to the amp's input stage allowing more clean headroom.

III. What about an EQ through the FX loop?

Running an EQ through your FX loop adds more output to the preamp stage; this will yield an overall level boost; for example, for use as a solo boost. Using an EQ or clean boost in the FX loop are very popular choices for an ad hoc solo boost.

General rule of thumb 3:
NEVER PUT A GAIN INDUCING DEVICE INTO THE FX LOOP OF AN AMP! That includes overdrive and distortion pedals.

I hope you find that helpful!

MrBump · « **Reply #9 on:** February 22, 2008, 02:51:18 PM »

Quote

It'll be a week or two before I can play again, because about a month ago I was knocked off my bike and got a broken wrist. It's been pinned and I'm now out of plaster and doing physio to get the movement back. Left hand

Ouch!

PhilKing · « **Reply #10 on:** February 22, 2008, 03:06:47 PM »

Quote from: Roobubba

It'll be a week or two before I can play again, because about a month ago I was knocked off my bike and got a broken wrist. It's been pinned and I'm now out of plaster and doing physio to get the movement back. Left hand

I did that many years ago, I ended up breaking the pot so I could play guitar - I softened the part across the palm of the hand. I got all the movement back, but it is a painful exercise to have to go through. Hope all works out well for you.

blue · « **Reply #11 on:** February 22, 2008, 05:26:21 PM »

Quote from: TwilightOdyssey

General rule of thumb 3:
NEVER PUT A GAIN INDUCING DEVICE INTO THE FX LOOP OF AN AMP! That includes overdrive and distortion pedals.

I hope you find that helpful!

i've never actually used my effects loop! :oops: anyway, was wondering, will it actually do any harm to put a gain device in the effects loop? won't a clean boost or boosted EQ have a similar (if different sounding) effect?

the_bleeding · « **Reply #12 on:** February 22, 2008, 06:18:22 PM »

not all overdrives add compression -- at least as much compression as you'd think.

my od 808 for example. quite sensitive and dynamic -- but i use it primarily as a clean boost -- drive on 3, tone to preference, volume to 7.

The more you turn up the drive knob, the more compression there is, but there is still not very much compression.

there is a tiny bass cut, but nothing terribly noticable with mine. It moreso just keeps the amp distorted for me instaed of me having to fight the amp to break up. i leave mine on all the time because i like the tone, i use the channel switching to lead boost :)