Valve amps

[MDV]

^ That's true, but the combo comes with an MG speaker so everyone thinks it is worse than it really is.

Y'know, that explains a lot!

[dave_mc]

With that range of sounds required I'd recommend an engl screamer.

that's what i'd do, assuming second-hand is ok. if not, laney lc30 is possibly worth a look. :)

EDIT: i quite liked the valveking i tried (for the price), but with your budget you can do better.

[Ibanezman]

I tried the Valve King out the other day and I just couldn't get that enthusiastic about it. In many ways it was good and it is cheap but it certainly wasn't special and frankly I'd rather spend a little extra to get a great tone.

The DSL401 I think is worth a try and I am very interested in the Laney amps. What advantage is there in real terms with an LC30 over a VC30. I know the spec differences is an extra channel really that important if you use pedals for distortion? The VC30 is, after all, £50 cheaper and then there's always the used VC30 212 option :D

Finally I was wondering about a Spider Valve as the best of all worlds. Hadn't thought of this but saw it mentioned on another forum and it sounded interesting. Any thoughts?

[noodleplugerine]

I tried the Valve King out the other day and I just couldn't get that enthusiastic about it. In many ways it was good and it is cheap but it certainly wasn't special and frankly I'd rather spend a little extra to get a great tone.

The DSL401 I think is worth a try and I am very interested in the Laney amps. What advantage is there in real terms with an LC30 over a VC30. I know the spec differences is an extra channel really that important if you use pedals for distortion? The VC30 is, after all, £50 cheaper and then there's always the used VC30 212 option :D

Finally I was wondering about a Spider Valve as the best of all worlds. Hadn't thought of this but saw it mentioned on another forum and it sounded interesting. Any thoughts?

You really wanna check out an Engl screamer mate.

I got mine for £500 on ebay with the pedalboard and a cover from the buyer.

The amp is in mint condition and sounds amazing - The best thing about bying 2nd hand amps is that, unlike guitars, they're extremely hard to damage! ESPECIALLY Engls!

[Ibanezman]

Beautiful amps - my favourite but I could only see one on ebay and it was £600! Still, as I won't be able to demo these other amps for a while due to the distance I have to travel, I'll keep a look out for one. You never know.

[dave_mc]

i wasn't overly fussed on the spider valve... it could have been worse, but it also could have been a lot better. plus that's pushing your budget to where you could get a better amp, if you ask me.

the vc30 has a footswitchable overdrive, so that's more or less the same thing as having two channels... from what i remember, the lc30 sounds more modern and a bit more american, while the vc30 sounds more vintage and more british. just really depends on what you're after.

[Ibanezman]

Well, things are still progressing and I'm getting increasingly frustrated with the whole thing. The latest amp to make it on to the consideration list was an Orange Rocker 30 which is somewhat more expensive than I originally anticipated but it does have a great tone. An odd omission is the lack of an effects loop, which surprised me in an amp costing over £600 and that would remove the possibility of using amp modelling through the power amp stage if I ever wanted to. It may not have enough gain for all the sounds I'm looking for but realistically, none of the amps I've been able to find do. The Marshall, the Laney LC30 and especially the VC30 would all need some kind of distortion effect to give me that kind of gain. I had assumed that if I was using the GNX as simply a pedal board then the distortion effects on there would sort it out for me but if that's wrong then I need to go back to the drawing board.

This whole thing about the effects loop on the Orange has raised a question I hadn't previously considered. Some people seem to think that you need an effects loop for things like delay while distortion will be better through the front of the amp. In that regard the Orange seems limited in comparison to the much cheaper VC30 seeing as both will need a distortion boost to get me where I want. The penny only dropped this morning that if I use the VC30 effects loop I'd be equally disadvantaged because I'd be using the GNX for all effects so everything would have to go through the front of the amp or the effects loop. Delays work better in the effects loop and distortion works better front end. That would appear to make the Orange and Laney equally compromised unless I accept the fact that I'd have to buy some seperate pedals to go with the amp I buy so I can split the effects.

I've been chasing a valve amp because everyone, including me, believes that the tone is so much better than using modelling but the reality of buying a decent valve amp appears to be very different. It seems that the only valve amp this side of £1000 that would really do high gain without additional effects is the Spider Valve and then I'm back to modelling anyway and I just don't believe that the amp models on a Spider Valve are as good as on my GNX. If I was going to go that route I'd be as well just getting the cheaper Laney VC30 and connecting through the effects loop to use my own amp modelling. It uses a Celestian 70/80 which must be a reasonably transparent speaker as they use it on the Tech 21 Power Engine. Either that or I go with the Atomic amp that people seem to rave about for modelling units or forget the whole valve idea completely and go back to a good quality powered PA speaker.

I was starting to think that buying the GNX was a mistake and I should have always just gone with a valve amp and a couple of pedals but the more I try to buy a decent valve amp that will do a good range of sounds, the more I keep having to return to some kind of modelling in order to achieve that. No wonder there is so much demand for modelling units; unless you are able to spend silly money on a valve amp there doesn't appear to be a viable alternative.

Given that I started this process at £300 and have now gone up to £600, I think I have to come to the point where I say 'enough is enough, I'm spending no more'. I have now reached that point. For what I use an amp for it simply doesn't make sense to spend more than that. As a result I'm going back to my starting point. I'll try out the valve amps that I've already mentioned and compare them to a good quality powered PA speaker. If the valve amps don't offer a significant advantage by themselves over the GNX and a PA speaker, I will try the Laney VC30 just as a power amp and compare that to the PA speaker and buy whichever sounds best as both of those options are about the same money. I suppose the Atomic amp is still possible but I'm naturally wary of buying something that I can't try first.

[dave_mc]

when i posted in this thread at the start, i didn't realise this was over at UG too... does everyone double their threads up like this? (i know i do it sometimes too)  :lol:

[hhcave]

Mesa F-50 are versatile and are going for cheap now that they have been discontinued...

[QS-Nalle]

Hiyah,

I got to tell you as a fellow forum member, stay away from the Valve King
the sound may be ok, but the build quality is not..... I base this opinion on the fact that we sell quite a few of the valve king series amps and the ALL without exeption have "issues"......

[gamesandy135]

+1 to QS-Nalle.
The sound of the valveking is fine, but build quality isn't.
I have a 1x12 Laney VC30 and I absolutely love it.  I can see why some people don't though, as it is hard to get the amp into heavy overdrive but for that, I use a Zvex box of rocks "boost" switch to push the amp hard and then  man does it sing.
I know you want to use a modeller but why not try the VC30 or LC30 with something like a super-hard-on (Zvex) in the front and your modeller in the loop?
I've also seen at least one video on youtube of the atomic amp used with a bunch of pedals and modellers and I have to say I was pretty impressed with the sound.

[hamfist]

Well, things are still progressing and I'm getting increasingly frustrated with the whole thing. The latest amp to make it on to the consideration list was an Orange Rocker 30 which is somewhat more expensive than I originally anticipated but it does have a great tone. An odd omission is the lack of an effects loop, which surprised me in an amp costing over £600 and that would remove the possibility of using amp modelling through the power amp stage if I ever wanted to. It may not have enough gain for all the sounds I'm looking for but realistically, none of the amps I've been able to find do. The Marshall, the Laney LC30 and especially the VC30 would all need some kind of distortion effect to give me that kind of gain. I had assumed that if I was using the GNX as simply a pedal board then the distortion effects on there would sort it out for me but if that's wrong then I need to go back to the drawing board.

This whole thing about the effects loop on the Orange has raised a question I hadn't previously considered. Some people seem to think that you need an effects loop for things like delay while distortion will be better through the front of the amp. In that regard the Orange seems limited in comparison to the much cheaper VC30 seeing as both will need a distortion boost to get me where I want. The penny only dropped this morning that if I use the VC30 effects loop I'd be equally disadvantaged because I'd be using the GNX for all effects so everything would have to go through the front of the amp or the effects loop. Delays work better in the effects loop and distortion works better front end. That would appear to make the Orange and Laney equally compromised unless I accept the fact that I'd have to buy some seperate pedals to go with the amp I buy so I can split the effects.

I've been chasing a valve amp because everyone, including me, believes that the tone is so much better than using modelling but the reality of buying a decent valve amp appears to be very different. It seems that the only valve amp this side of £1000 that would really do high gain without additional effects is the Spider Valve and then I'm back to modelling anyway and I just don't believe that the amp models on a Spider Valve are as good as on my GNX. If I was going to go that route I'd be as well just getting the cheaper Laney VC30 and connecting through the effects loop to use my own amp modelling. It uses a Celestian 70/80 which must be a reasonably transparent speaker as they use it on the Tech 21 Power Engine. Either that or I go with the Atomic amp that people seem to rave about for modelling units or forget the whole valve idea completely and go back to a good quality powered PA speaker.

I was starting to think that buying the GNX was a mistake and I should have always just gone with a valve amp and a couple of pedals but the more I try to buy a decent valve amp that will do a good range of sounds, the more I keep having to return to some kind of modelling in order to achieve that. No wonder there is so much demand for modelling units; unless you are able to spend silly money on a valve amp there doesn't appear to be a viable alternative.

Given that I started this process at £300 and have now gone up to £600, I think I have to come to the point where I say 'enough is enough, I'm spending no more'. I have now reached that point. For what I use an amp for it simply doesn't make sense to spend more than that. As a result I'm going back to my starting point. I'll try out the valve amps that I've already mentioned and compare them to a good quality powered PA speaker. If the valve amps don't offer a significant advantage by themselves over the GNX and a PA speaker, I will try the Laney VC30 just as a power amp and compare that to the PA speaker and buy whichever sounds best as both of those options are about the same money. I suppose the Atomic amp is still possible but I'm naturally wary of buying something that I can't try first.

It sounds like you have thought this through very intelligently, and seem to understand the limitations of various amps, modellers, FX loops etc.
  Even so, I still wouldn't discount putting your GNX in the loop of a tube amp for delay/chorus/reverb etc - and then buying an OD/boost pedal to drive the front end of the amp, if you're looking for extra gain.  You needn't spend quite as much as for a Zvex SHO (as suggested earlier), as I know your budget is tight. A quality boost pedal can be had, new for £60-£80, and secondhand for noticeably less. Take a look at some of the MI Audio pedals, for example - excellent value and high quality.

[FiXXXeR]

the Orange Rocker 30 is an awesome little amp it one of those 'must have' amps.

i was blown away by the tone the thing produces, im using Cornford Rk100 for live use and the orange certainly holds its own against that!!!

and its £600, so cant go wrong!!!

[ailean]

I got my ValveKing for £280 and have not had a problem with it (yet). The lead channel is not up to much, but put a Blackstar distortion pedal in front of the clean channel and you get a decent sound. And it's worth replacing the standard valves as well.

I know this isn't much help, but I own an Orange TT and Rockerverb 50, both are awsome amps. But the TT is too limited for what you are looking to do (great amp though) and the RV50 is £1000 for the head, then you need the cab. However, Sue uses the RV 50 with all of her pedal board in front of the clean channel, delay, distortion, the lot and it works well. So perhaps the Rocker 30 will do the job for you that way.

I hope you find a solution that pleases you, (good) valve amps give depth and definition that solid state can't quite do, if you can get the right one, you'll be a very happy bunny.

[thealmightynico]

I would have a look at the Randall RG50TC - it has a pleasent overall sound (judging by the Guitarist CD anyway!) and has 4 footswitchable sounds from clean to filth, plus an FX loop.  Best of all it costs £370 from GAK