2x12 vs 4x12 cabs

[mikey5]

I have seen some comments about cabinets of late that has aroused this question in my mind. I have seen posts that say you have to be careful when choosing a 2x12, and other people in guitar stores have told me I might as well get a 4x12. As of right now I am fine with my 1x12, but I am curious what people should look for when purchasing cabinets with one speaker. What are the Pros possible defects etc.
Mike

[hamfist]

but I am curious what people should look for when purchasing cabinets with one speaker. What are the Pros possible defects etc.
Mike

Not quite sure what you're asking Mike. The quote above seems to be the complete opposite to the title of the thread. Are you able to be  a bit more specific ?

[Denim n Leather]

You need to be just as careful selecting a 4x12, too. It's twice the size, twice the number of driver, thrice the weight, and has the potential to sound ten times worse!

[the prince of shred]

id also like to know abit more on this topic, if you buy a 100 watt head for example whats the minimum wattage ur cab can be? also 100??? or does each speaker need to be the same wattage as ur amp??? also i really dont get ohms what do they mean ? im guessing ur speakers need to run at the same ohms as ur amp...??? thanks

[AndyR]

but I am curious what people should look for when purchasing cabinets with one speaker. What are the Pros possible defects etc.
Mike

Not quite sure what you're asking Mike. The quote above seems to be the complete opposite to the title of the thread. Are you able to be  a bit more specific ?

Sounds to me like he wants some wisdom on different numbers of speakers in cabs?

All I can add is that I gigged for years with an open-backed 1x12 50w master volume Laney combo (a Pro-Tube built a year or two before they launched AOR and multiple gain-stages) - it did a fine job. When I ordered it I expected it to be 2x12 (as did the shop!) but I loved it and didn't know any different at the time (1983).

In some venues I lacked a bit of bottom end - I understand that a closed back cab might be better for this?

A lot of my mates went for Marshalls and 4x12s cos they had "bigger willies" (an old joke from the sound-engineer we all shared :lol:). Through the PA, I was getting as big a sound as they were, and I caused outfront and monitor engineers a lot less grief.

I tried putting mine through a 4x12 for a couple of gigs and HATED it on stage. 4x12s are directional - they project a "beam", so I found it can be difficult to hear what you're doing on stage - you can't "locate" on auto-pilot where your sound is coming from. I was lead vocalist and loved how a 1x12 works, because it's not directional, it projects in all directions in comparison, so I could always hear where on the stage my guitar was coming from, so I could concentrate on singing/performing without continually subconsciously "retuning my radar" to hear my guitar at the same time.

So if you're "happy with a 1x12", but are thinking something bigger might be better... might not necessarilly be so! :lol:

Using modellers recently, I'm getting the impression that for the same amp settings, 1x12s cut through a mix better, 2x12s are a bit warmer, 4x12s give you a warmer and "bigger" sound again, but at the expense of clarity. Remember this is modellers though, not real cabs...

If you want advice on gh-this and wotsit-that speakers, though... I'm not the man!
 
All the guys with lots of speaker experience can chime in now :D (I still don't know what speaker is in my old Laney, and I'd have to re-arrange the bedroom to get at it :lol:)

EDIT: Ah! They've started ...

[Denim n Leather]

Andy -- old Laney probably means Fane drivers, which are GREAT.

[gwEm]

Andy -- old Laney probably means Fane drivers, which are GREAT.

and i'm sure the open-backness dispersed the sound a bit better too.

i'm personally using two mesa boogie theile 1x12s in a vertical stack. like andy with his laney i think they do a fine job :) electro voice speakers by the way... you know you just get something and you know you can stop looking - that was the case with these cabs.

[hamfist]

There are some basic principles that a number of folk here might liek to hear.

1/ Closed back cabs have more "chunk" and bass, but are MUCH more directional, whether they are 1x12 or 4x12.

2/ The greater the number of speakers in a cab, generally, the greater the depth and fullness of the tone.

3/ For every 100W of amp, you'll need at least 150W of speaker handling in your cab. For example, 2 x 50W speakers in a cab give you a 2x50W=100W cab. 4 x 50W speakers in a cab give you a 4x50W=200W cab.

4/ Total ohmage of a cab should be matched with the amp's ohm output requirements.

Personally, I like 4x12 closed back cabs for everything, even low volume playing, as they simply sound deeper and fuller than a 2x12 or 1x12 (open or closed back) cab. Yes, they're directional but, to me, that can help to reduce general stage volume, and reduces annoying everyone else. Open backed cabs can be very volume dominating on a stage. They are very generous with their sound everywhere !!

[d1dsj]

I've tried a few and here's my thoughts:

Marshall silver jubilee 1 x 12 combo - open back.
Great little combo, my personal favorite amp series from Marshall, but the 1 x 12 was great in isolation but I found it directional and got lost in the band mix (unless you mic'd up).

Fender Prosonic 2 x 10 combo - open back.
This amp had 2 x 10" speakers and seemed to lack bottom end. I really liked the amp but felt that the cabinet design may have been too small... it just lacked "something".

Amp head/ cabs.
All cabs used with either a Cornford Hellcat or/ and MK50. We never mic our back line so can use the volume of the amps a bit and play classic rock... Lizzy, DC, MSG, Zep... the usual suspects.

Marshall 4 x 12 with 30watt greenbacks closed back.
Not a bad cab at all, speakers were warm and smooth sounding. It was a re-issue (Purple Hendrix) and there was a problem with the jack socket, took the back off only to find it was chipboard and broken! In gthe heat of the moment I sold it VERY cheap and swore I'd never get another Marshall. In retrospect I should have put a thin (9mm) ply back on as it did sound pretty good.... not directional or "beamy"... nice spread of sound with a full sound. Sold it for the following.......

Mesa 2 x 12 horizontal recto with V30's closed back.
Build quality excellent.... for me that's it! VERY VERY directional and dark. Ok in isolation... in the band mix it was really hard work. If I moved so much as 1' to the side I could not hear myself, gthe rest of the band couldn't hear anything at all. Maybe I should have tried opening the back up as Mesa do offer an open back panel. Anyway... major disappointment so sold for the following.....

Mesa 4 x 12 Tall cab with V30's closed back.
Again build quality superb, very heavy. Would you believe same problem as the 2 x 12? I couldn't! VERY directional and DARK. I realised why metal bands use Mesa's.... massive bottom end chunk, just not for me.... not the sound I wanted. My band mates were REALLY glad to see this go... so was I. So... sold for the follwing.....

Mongotne Mahogany 4 x 10 with G10's and open back.
WOW... F'in awesome cab barr none!! It was like having surround sound but not in a bad way, no more problem hearing me now... my amps now came to life... VERY VERY nice cabs. Warm and sweet sound... loads of head room clean, very spacious... and when played with a dirty amp  it's just so balanced. Surprisingly BIG bottom end... nice and chunky... perfect cab except it is too nice to bash about. So... kept this one and carried on looking for a cab that could be used at gigs where it may get a bit beat up....

Now at this point I was looking for anything as long as it didn't have V30's... I put the Mesa cab's problem partially down to V30's and I hated them!! Next up.....

70's Orange 4 x 12 with '72/'73 Greenbacks closed back.
This cab sounded great with the MK50... old school classic rock sound... typically Angus! However, the Greenbacks did not suit the Hellcat's modern channel nearly as well.... it just seemed to be lacking subtle detail in the sound. So I started using the MK50 more exclusively and was very happy with the sound. (I kept the Hellcat/ 4 x 10 cab at home or for the better venues!). Still got the Orange cab... they are great cabs indeed......

By chance I saw a Cornford 4 x 12 at a good price so..

Cornford 4 x 12 with V30's pine construction closed back.
I was VERY dubious about getting this cab even though it was a great deal.... V30's.... Oh Noooooooooooooo!
Well I got the shock of my life when I used it... gigged it without really testing the water. In short... EXCELLENT! BOTH amps sounded awesome... as long as the volume was ata a reasonable level. I'm not saying they have to be cranked, but they DO warm up and fill out with volume IMO. With this I spoke to Martin Kidd and low and behold he said that HE liked V30's and that his amps were voiced to be used with them!! I can see why... they do sound great. I guess being pine it helps with the resonance... nice and warm, very good spread of sound even though they are closed back and excellent projection too. Glad I tried the Cornford cab... liked it so much I got another!

So in short it really is just like your guitar preferences.... just as body wood, neck and finger board wood and pick ups affect the "tone", it's the same with speaker cabinets. Construction, speakers and configration affect the sound and some will suit your amp and some won't. I did try a Cornford 2 x 12 and a Marshall 2 x 12 and I found they were lacking that full sound I get with a 4 x 12. Also the thing to bear in mind is that we DON'T mic up our amps so I can at least set up at a reasonable volume... and if ever I was to mic up I would then think about a 1 x 12. So there really is no right or wrong... it's down to each persons individual requirements. If I were you I'd try as many cabs as you can with your amp or the amp you are looking to get. Cheers.
 

[shaman]

Andy -- old Laney probably means Fane drivers, which are GREAT.

and i'm sure the open-backness dispersed the sound a bit better too.

i'm personally using two mesa boogie theile 1x12s in a vertical stack. like andy with his laney i think they do a fine job :) electro voice speakers by the way... you know you just get something and you know you can stop looking - that was the case with these cabs.

..attaboy,gwEm!!glad to see another Thiele user...incredible,aren't they??and sooo easy during load in/load out...!!!even with th EV's
-I play mine with Boogie power, but they also sound incredible with the Tele/Dr.  Z scene as well...headroom!!!!

[AndyR]

Andy -- old Laney probably means Fane drivers, which are GREAT.

That picqued my curiousity D&M - I remember people telling me "you've got a Fane" years ago, and me going "no I ain't!??"

So I had a look last night - it's a McKenzie speaker.

Not much of an expert on this stuff, so I did a quick google and discovered that they were in some way connected to Fane and Wharfdale and went out of business in the early 90s... (these are "internet facts" from a forum I found :lol:) - general consensus seemed to be "if you have McKenzies, do not part with them..."