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Author Topic: Help me choose the ideal amp!  (Read 16152 times)

SixGunLover

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Help me choose the ideal amp!
« on: March 04, 2009, 05:01:18 AM »
Hey everybody!

It's been a long time. I used to kick around here quite a bit when I had a band going, but when we broke up I sold off all my gear and gave it up. Of course, that couldn't last forever (I missed it too much) and I eventually got back into it. I used to play a Tokai '59 Les Paul Replica with Bare Knuckle Rebel Yells straight into a Marshall Silver Jubilee 2558 50W 1x12 Combo, sometimes kicked with a Digitech Bad Monkey set as a clean boost. Some of you will be very disappointed to hear that my current rig is entirely modelling-based, consisting of a Variax 600 running through a Vox Tonelab LE direct into the PA. Though it's definitely not flawless, I must admit that as a tone freak it's better than I thought it would be - I actually think the Tonelab is an excellent piece of equipment; not 100% there, but maybe 85-90% if you tweak it right. Unlike my old Marshall setup it's very versatile and I can practice at home without my old age pensioner neighbors threatening to have me jailed. On top of that, 85-90% of your typical non-guitar playing audience probably can't tell the difference (or even care).

Anyway, while I'm happy enough for the minute, I've realized that I don't really need something this versatile. I'd rather have one or two excellent quality tones than ten to twenty decent ones, many of which I won't bother using. So, here are the requirements for an upgraded rig:

Tone. This comes first and foremost. My favorite guitar tone could be described as pure British Classic Rock of the 60s and 70s. Think a Marshall Plexi. Think Lenny Kravitz. Something that allows you to hear the nuances of the guitar and your playing - from the pickups, to the wood, to the strength of your pick attack, and so on. Something that you can roll back your guitar volume knob and hear it clean up. Ideally, I could put a nice clean boost pedal in front and kick it a little harder for more sustain in solos or to play heavier rhythms. In an ideal world, I'd like something that offers a range of tones from useable cleans to bluesy breakup to all-out classic rock overdrive, even if this simply meant adjusting the guitar's volume knob. I don't need a bunch of knobs I'll never use, built-in reverbs and other effects, or multiple channels with independent EQs. I don't need a jack-of-all-trades, master-of-none - I need something that's the best at what it does, which is the retro rock vibe. An effects loop would be a bonus, but isn't required. Although I favor the British sound of EL34s, I have heard amps that use different output tubes that I love the sound of and so I won't limit myself by that factor.

Versatility of use. I'm not talking about an amp that can cover all sorts of tonal territory. What I am talking about is an amp I can use in the studio for recording, at a gig (invariably miced up and put through a P.A.) or even at home for practice. This rules out your huge 100W monsters (even with attenuation) - even on the 25W setting, my old Marshall Jubilee was really driving my neighbors crazy. Remember that just 5W is something like a quarter as loud as 100W. Ideally I guess I'm looking for something that's under 30W. Attenuation might be an option, although in an ideal world I'd like to be able to simply plug and play and not have to worry about running a Hotplate or similar device in order to stop heads exploding. This isn't 1965 - because micing and running through the P.A. is the norm at gigs, I don't need (or want) to worry about having huge stacks so the audience can hear me. Weight and size isn't really too much of a bother, as long as it will fit in a car, but of course the smaller the better.

In terms of price, I'd be willing to consider all my options, really. Because I can get by gigging at the moment with my current setup, I'm not in any rush to buy, giving me the option of saving for something expensive if I felt it was justified/if there was something I really desired. It'd be lovely to hear that there's something cheap that will do everything I want, but it's been my experience that you get what you pay for, and I don't mind doing that.

So, you've all been a big help to me in the past, when I've wanted your advice on pickup selection for various guitars (my past two being the aforementioned Rebel Yells and before that a set of Mules). Can you please offer your advice on an amp that perfectly captures that vintage rock vibe and puts it in a relatively low-wattage, low-volume package, ideal for gigging, studio or home use? Thanks in advance to any who respond.

hamfist

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Re: Help me choose the ideal amp!
« Reply #1 on: March 04, 2009, 07:41:08 AM »
IMO, you can't quite get that tone (especially gigging) without at least 2 x EL34's and a 4x12. If tone is your number one objective, then you would be doing yourself a dis-service to get anything smaller.

 However, having said that, you can get reasonably close in a smaller package, and I'm getting a lot of vibes from your post that size is a serious factor to you.

If you are set on a "tiddler" then look at a Martamp (now MJW amps) V6-20 with a suitable-sized cab that fits your desires (the bigger the better though !). Martin has a good ear and makes a top quality product.

 I have been through a million amps and setups, and I have actually come to the decision that the best tube/analog rig that suits all volumes is actually a big clean tube amp with pedals.  There are some astounding pedals out there now. Do a bit of research on the Fulltone OCD or an Xotic AC Booster, for example. They will deliver the tone you want in spades. Put them through a decent wattage clean amp, and you get pretty much the same tone at whisper volume or at gigs. An amp like a Fender Hot Rod Deluxe or Blues Deluxe is a portable yet potentially loud base for a pedal rig.

You actually talk about wanting something like a Plexi, yet you are used to playing through a Jubilee. The Plexi will have much less gain than the Jube. A plexi will be a very different experience. Have you actually played a Plexi or a clone ?   Don't get sucked into the hype about Plexi's. Some people talk about them as being the holy grail. They do one thing well, but are not very versatile. They also need either volume or a quality attenuator to get good distortion out of them.

Other options available to you are somthing like a Bogner Alchemist 1x12 combo, a Cornford Roadhouse 30 combo or a Blackstar Artisan 30 combo. All are very fine amplifiers.

In my experience though, there is not a mid-gain tube amp made that sounds really good at gigging volume AND quiet at home without using an attenuator. The nature of tube amps is that they do sound different at different volumes. The exceptions are predominantly clean amps, and high gain amps - which get all their distortion from the pre-amp (so you get the same at pretty much any volume). 

  Sorry for all my rambling. Hopefully there's something of some use somewhere in there.

Twinfan

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Re: Help me choose the ideal amp!
« Reply #2 on: March 04, 2009, 08:26:06 AM »
....the best tube/analog rig that suits all volumes is actually a big clean tube amp with pedals.....In my experience though, there is not a mid-gain tube amp made that sounds really good at gigging volume AND quiet at home without using an attenuator.

I'd have to disagree here.  My Martamp Orion sounds great at all volumes, and even without pedals it covers a hell of a lot of ground.  Mine is around 45w clean, but you could have one built with 2 output valves not four and have it around 30w.  On brief in fact  :)  I've also got a pentode/triode switch on mine to drop the power levels down, or you could have Power Scaling installed instead.  It also has an effects loop - on brief again  ;)

It has a clean channel that covers SRV through Keef and up to Angus levels of gain.  The lead channel then covers 'classic rock' with the extra gain stage taking it up to NWOBM tones.

In my opinion, it does all that you want.  Because it does all that I want, and I had pretty much the same requirements when I helped Martin spec it up  ;)

I'd give Martin a call and have a chat about options/prices  :)

www.martamp.com

SixGunLover

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Re: Help me choose the ideal amp!
« Reply #3 on: March 04, 2009, 08:35:41 AM »
Please, don't apologize - there were plenty of useful comments in there, and any confusion is a result of me not being clear enough with my original post.

I made reference to a Plexi - though I've never owned one personally, I guess the main factors I like about them are their transparency (in terms of being able to hear the qualities of the instrument and playing, not merely the color of the amp itself) and their ability to clean up with the use of the guitar's volume knob. A lot of my favorite sounds (e.g. Cream-era Clapton, Rocks-era Joe Perry/Brad Whitford of Aerosmith, certain tracks/live performances by Craig Ross and Lenny Kravitz, and so on) are Plexis, but I'm not limiting myself to a Plexi/Plexi clone because of that. The key requirement is something that can do the retro/classic rock vintage vibe, is transparent and cleans up well. It doesn't have to be a Plexi.

The Martamp stuff looks cool, and is definitely something I will investigate. I've heard a lot of good things about the Orange Tiny Terror, but from clips I've heard they might be a little dark sounding - anyone know better? The Matamp King Street (or Chino combo version) reads well but I haven't heard any clips. Something like a Roccaforte might be cool, too, but again I'd have to hear clips. Any other suggestions?

SixGunLover

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Re: Help me choose the ideal amp!
« Reply #4 on: March 04, 2009, 08:39:52 AM »
Thanks Twinfan, the Martamp stuff looks pretty cool, I have to admit, and all the feedback I've heard on these forums and elsewhere is amazing. The Orion looks like it might be surplus to what I need, though. From what I gather, you've had quite a lot of experience with Martin's stuff. Do you think something like an EL34 or EL84-powered Goldstar/TT or EL84-powered Roadstar/TT would suit my needs?

tomjackson

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Re: Help me choose the ideal amp!
« Reply #5 on: March 04, 2009, 08:42:41 AM »
I've tried the Blackstar and it is a lovely amp but seriously loud for 30W, and only versatile in a vintage sense.

Also had a demo of the Orion the other day, my instant impression was that it sounded great, even at low volumes and there was loads of tweakability.  I think a powerful amp like this that sounds good at low volume would be the best way to go then you have one amp that does everything.  And it roars like a lion when cranked.

I like the TT but if you were going to go that route I'd suggest the Martamp Roadstar 18 TT, sonically it's in a different league.  




Twinfan

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Re: Help me choose the ideal amp!
« Reply #6 on: March 04, 2009, 08:46:21 AM »
The Roadstar/Goldtstars may well suit your needs, yes.  I personally prefer a more 'open' sounding amp, but a lot of people love the 18w and 36w models.  With Power Scaling added, they become really flexible for home use and recording.  When using them live, you can't really get a loud clean sound - it's not what they do.  They're gainy little beasts!

Martin's a friendly chap, and his advice is free, so I'd give him a call and see what he can do for you  :)

Edit:  As Tom says, the Orange TT is a bit dark/dull sounding in comparison to Martin's amps.  And I agree with him that the Orion would be 'future proof' as it covers a lot of tone at a range of volumes - very flexible.  SInce getting mine, I can't see me buying another amp.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2009, 08:53:51 AM by Twinfan »

SixGunLover

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Re: Help me choose the ideal amp!
« Reply #7 on: March 04, 2009, 08:50:11 AM »
Thanks - I think I'll do that.

PPPMAT

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Re: Help me choose the ideal amp!
« Reply #8 on: March 04, 2009, 08:55:19 AM »
My tone requirements were similar ish to yours and I have gone for a jmp 50 with power scaling built by Martin. As you can see from the replies there is def. more than one way to skin a cat! If you want el34 tone and power amp distortion then it might be a way to go - with power scaling outright power is not really the issue.

If you don't need the amp right now and want to tailor it to suit then I think we are probably all more or less agreed that Martin is by far your best bet!

Off the peg then orange/laney/blackstar would be worth a look

Cheers

matt


Andrew W

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Re: Help me choose the ideal amp!
« Reply #9 on: March 04, 2009, 09:13:40 AM »
I'd also take a look at the Cornell Plexi Seven. It has attenuation from 7 to 2 to 1/2 watt and sounds great for the kinds of tone you describe.  I have one and love it to bits.  Wunjo guitars in Denmark Street have one second hand at the moment.

http://www.dc-developments.com/cornell_plexi7_combo.htm

There's also bigger brothers if seven watts isn't enough.

hamfist

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Re: Help me choose the ideal amp!
« Reply #10 on: March 04, 2009, 01:12:38 PM »
....the best tube/analog rig that suits all volumes is actually a big clean tube amp with pedals.....In my experience though, there is not a mid-gain tube amp made that sounds really good at gigging volume AND quiet at home without using an attenuator.

I'd have to disagree here.  My Martamp Orion sounds great at all volumes, and even without pedals it covers a hell of a lot of ground.  Mine is around 45w clean, but you could have one built with 2 output valves not four and have it around 30w.  On brief in fact  :)  I've also got a pentode/triode switch on mine to drop the power levels down, or you could have Power Scaling installed instead.  It also has an effects loop - on brief again  ;)

It's a pity I've finished my obsessional amp-buying phase, it really sounds like the Orion would have been right up my street.

Who knows, maybe at some point in the future.

PhilKing

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Re: Help me choose the ideal amp!
« Reply #11 on: March 04, 2009, 01:35:21 PM »
One that's getting great reviews in the States is the Egnator Rebel, but I'm not sure if it is available in England yet.  Here it is around $600 for the head and $300 per 1x12 cab.  It has a blendable 2x6V6 and 2xEL84 power section with scalable output from 1 watt to 20.  Having said that, 1 watt can be pretty loud for home use.  I just picked up a Hughes and Kettner Metal Shredder which has a 1 watt output and it really fills the room with sound.
So many pickups, so little time

hamfist

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Re: Help me choose the ideal amp!
« Reply #12 on: March 04, 2009, 08:02:17 PM »
One that's getting great reviews in the States is the Egnator Rebel, but I'm not sure if it is available in England yet.  Here it is around $600 for the head and $300 per 1x12 cab.  It has a blendable 2x6V6 and 2xEL84 power section with scalable output from 1 watt to 20.  Having said that, 1 watt can be pretty loud for home use.  I just picked up a Hughes and Kettner Metal Shredder which has a 1 watt output and it really fills the room with sound.

Egnater amps at GuitarGuitar - http://www.guitarguitar.co.uk/amplification.asp?brandname=Egnater

£700 for head and cab.

Alex

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Re: Help me choose the ideal amp!
« Reply #13 on: March 04, 2009, 08:37:28 PM »
Sixgunlover

As you may know I recently acquired the Krank Rev Jr. I love the amp, but it is probably too metal for your music choice. It was my choice because it was also within my budget. Had my budget been higher, I would have gotten a Hughes & Kettner Puretone. It is way more "classic rock" and just very nice... if you get a chance I highly recommend you try it, eventhough it costs a lot. Maybe if the pound gets stronger (LOL) you can order one from www.thomann.de at some point.
I say it would fit your description of what you are looking for.

There's also an Audiokitchen Little chopper, but I've not tried that one. http://www.audiokitchen.co.uk/

Anyway, the Puretone is stellar!!! This guitar store Reverb (?) in Birmingham has one in stock btw.
Current BKPs: Miracle Man, Nailbomb, Juggernaut, VHII
Past BKPS: Holy Diver, Trilogy Suite, Sinner, Black Dog