Mules in a 335

[Philly Q]

The GAS send us a bit crazy sometime :?

Tell me about it!  :lol:

[Fourth Feline]

Thanks for the advise guys, food for thought.

I'd never have considered Riff Raff's, I'd always though of them as Angus pickups only really.  I'll do some research on them and listen to a few clips.  I play mainly clean or breakup (aside from the occational nasty solo :twisted:) so I need to find some clips in the lower gain ranges.

I'm thinking Riff Raff's would sound like this:-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kvi2EpkLHjc

To clarify, I want something basically PAF that converys the hollow woody tone of the semi, but when I dig in are not too polite and I can get the amp to breakup a bit, so basically a good dynamic range, good cleans, detailed in the bass with a bit of woody twang and with a bit of kick for solos in the bridge.

I suppose the easiest would be to use my existinmg SM's but as 335's are a pain in the behind to swap pup's I want to get it right first time.  I may get the magnets changed to AIV since it's not too expensive and try that, but Riff Raffs do sound interesting.

MQ's sound right up my street from your description Fourth Feline, but as this will be my only humbucker guitar I think I would always want another guitar as a home for some PAF ish humbuckers.  But if they are all you say them perhaps not.....

Riff Raffs in a 335 are Exactly what I am hearing in that Gregor Hilden clip.  :) 

To be fair, I am having to take the memory of hearing Twinfan's Riff Raffs in a solid body guitar - and factor in the trademark 335 / 339 tone shaping characteristics , but that sound is not M.Qs, and certainly not AIV Stormies.  The bit that decides it for me time and again in that clip, is the sheer hard bite that he gets when he picks hard or lays off of the right hand damping. 

The Stormies would be his most 'polite' playing - but all the time - and the M.Qs would fatten where his pickups 'cut' without appology. 

In valve amplifier terms ( however abstract this comparison might sound )  the Riff Raffs sound to have that EL34 like upper mid range grind and bite to me ; and the M.Qs ( in contrast ) have a glassy, full ,  rounded 6L6 (Fender Twin)  like sound to me.

Good choice of video to frame your question there !  :)

 :)

[Fourth Feline]

Probably more gain than I usually play with but I like this tone as well.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wv_2iGq1_VU

And this for the jazzier stuff where you can hear the wood coming through.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XnJIvw12y5k

Now in this case, I hear the Riff Raff type tone in the first clip, albeit being controled and muted for about 90% of the time. The Riff Raff - a -like character comes on the edge of about 10% of those notes where it cuts almost enough to set your tooth fillings on edge - albeit briefly.

The second clip is ( for me ) pure AIV Stormy Mondays - but unless you want that tone all the time , get the Riff Raffs, select the neck, apply subtle ( Larry Carlton like ) right hand string damping on the bridge - and roll off the tone a touch.

Of course I am forgetting to mention the 'fabled' Riff Raff bridge / AIV Stormy Monday neck combo IF you want to sound like all three players you have showcased here.   :)

[Twinfan]

Tom - did you try the Riff Raffs in my SG at the Manchester meet?  If not, you're welcome to bob round to mine and try them.

If you did play mine and you're thinking they might be a bit too 'Angus', remember you were playing through my 'DC rig with an SG.  That might have influenced things a bit  ;)

I think Riff Raffs (brighter, more bite, colder) or AIV Stormies (still bright, bit warmer, smoother) would get my vote.

[tomjackson]

Okay, I'm really leaning towards the Riff Raff's now, thanks again for the advise.

Twinfan, I did try your SG at the meet and it sounded great but I think the setup was obviously geared for the Angus edgy crunch so I was listening/playing with that in mind, at the time I would never have considered Riff Raff's in a semi for cleaner blues....not because I thought they would not be good, just becasue I was in an AC/DC frame of mind.
I think when I get the semi I'll take you up on that offer and have another listen to them.  I was in sounds great before looking at the Peerless Guitars  but they only had the full archtop Jazz guitars rather than the 335 style I like.
I might pop over to Richtone next week to have a go of the Japanese Tokais....

Fourth Feline, I like your valve analogy.  I love 6L6's though so I'm definitely not put off by the M.Q.'s.  Do you know of any YT clips that would approximate their sound?

[Fourth Feline]

Okay, I'm really leaning towards the Riff Raff's now, thanks again for the advise.

Twinfan, I did try your SG at the meet and it sounded great but I think the setup was obviously geared for the Angus edgy crunch so I was listening/playing with that in mind, at the time I would never have considered Riff Raff's in a semi for cleaner blues....not because I thought they would not be good, just becasue I was in an AC/DC frame of mind.
I think when I get the semi I'll take you up on that offer and have another listen to them.  I was in sounds great before looking at the Peerless Guitars  but they only had the full archtop Jazz guitars rather than the 335 style I like.
I might pop over to Richtone next week to have a go of the Japanese Tokais....

Fourth Feline, I like your valve analogy.  I love 6L6's though so I'm definitely not put off by the M.Q.'s.  Do you know of any YT clips that would approximate their sound?

Yes Tom, but ironically it is someone playing Gibson '57 classics. The link is that Larry Carlton is often right hand damping, using the bridge pickup with the tone rolled way back, using a heavy pick and setting the E.Q to quench the full firepower till the higher speed 'breaks' when he unleashes the bridge a bit more and also sometimes kicks the Whah pedal full forward e.t.c. 

The tone I got from M.Qs being very close to this ( only obvioulsy the playing not as good ) .  The whole vibe is more rounded than sharp though, the top end goes glassy and fat - and the edge when it comes - has width as well as 'spike' .

It's all about balance between pickups and woods again, but check out ( as a tonal example ) near the end where he starts picking / slapping the strings between finger and thumb, as it is his use of the '57s that sound ( paradoxically) like M.Qs - or ( in a lighter semi-acoustic than mine ) probably the AIV Stormy Monday.

I was faced with a great playing, looking and feeling guitar, but it had thick basswood laminates for the body - and a mahogany neck. Without some clean / clear extra 'muscle' it was not going to sound like an 'airy' thin Maple laminate job - which you are getting (?) .

But whilst the attached clip is therefore not 'pure M.Q. ' the end result of his picking technique often demonstrates the tonal character of a M.Q. - in that you get 'fat' on the top e / b / g when stroking the strings , but with that fat overwound  single coil 'glassy' edge when digging into the bridge or middle toggle posistions.

So , here ( approximately ) goes :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jNIXVw_kni4&feature=related

Also think of Dave Gilmour's solo in " Another Brick In The Wall Pt II " - pure Gibson Les Paul / P90 goodness :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LUASiDg-kg4

[FernandoDuarte]

Have you seen it?

http://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=14533.0
http://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=14532.0