Still have this guitar that needs some BKPs...

[AndyR]

BigB

You might want to consider Sultans... I got mine in and rocking, and they are sweet.

In my experience, I'd say they are to ITs what what Yardbirds are to Blackguard Flat50s in my teles.

Here's my essay on yesterday's first impressions http://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=20377.0

Bear in mind it seems to be quite a warm guitar anyway, and it's a rosewood board, and I haven't heard Apaches in the flesh, but Sultans are giving me generic "classic" strat in spades :D

The top end is fabulous. Where the ITs and BGs have got an extra bite like a slightly ragged-edged pirate's cutlass, great for harder blues-rock but not so easy to tame or get polite with, the Sultans and Yardbirds have this deceptively smooth edge to them that will cut just as easily but allow you to appear more civilised while you're doing it :lol:

[BigB]

Hi AndyR

Thanks for the report - and glad to learn you're happy with your new pups  :D

FWIW the Vox is just back from the luthier - gave the poor guy some hard time, but it makes quite a difference in the end, it's now a pleasure to play, the trem is way smoother and the tuning is almost stable - well, as much as it can be with a vintage strat trem system :mrgreen:

Back on topic - you describe the Sultans as smoother than the BG (to compare with pups I know), but do they sound as open and airy ? I just played the Vox for about an hour, loosely jamming along old ZZ Top, Rolling Stones and Patti Smith stuff, and while I enjoy it's playability, I felt something missing - then switched to the Tele for a last track and bang, instant magic, despite the slightly rusty strings and the somehow hazardous intonation. Not that the Vox pups are bad by themselves, they even do have something, but they really lack that lively mojo vibe :-/ So when I read "smoother" (which by itself might be something I'd be interested in) and "more polite", I fear the Sultans would be too smooth and polite for my liking...

But anyway - I'll read a bit more about the Sultans

Thanks for sharing.

[AndyR]

"Smoothness" - I think a lot of it is to do with the guitar itself. (And also what we mean by "smooth"!)

I might be wrong here, but I chose Sultans instead of Apaches because I reckoned Apaches might just be too "rounded" for this particular guitar.

I'm absolutely loving this guitar now - so much so that I've suddenly noticed it needs a fret dress :lol:

I know what you mean about the mojo vibe. This has it now, but it's a slightly different vibe than the others. Actually, a completely different vibe.

I've spent years pushing my strats to sound like Rory Gallagher's, and the IT'd Roadworn is probably the closest I've come to it. But that's quite a hard sound, very expressive, but there are things I can't really do "properly" with it.

I was aiming at, for the CIJ, a different vibe altogether. And when I was playing last night, I realised I've managed it. Nothing else I have sounds quite so "stratty" as this one does now. I could play my IT'd Roadworn and my BG'd tele, and I'd know the difference, but if I recorded one and told you it was the other, you wouldn't be able to contradict me with any certainty... with this guitar, there's no way another guitarist could mistake it for anything other than a strat.

I have to admit, if I was jamming along to ZZ Top or the Stones, I'd be reaching for a tele (or maybe a humbucker), not a strat... but if it had to be a strat, it would be the IT'd Roadworn.

If I was jamming along to Dire Straits, it would still probably be the Roadworn, funnily enough.

If it was The Shadows, it would be the Sultan'd CIJ.

BUT! I'd also reach for the CIJ to jam with: Lynyrd Skynyrd, Robin Trower, Judas Priest, Ritchie Blackmore, SRV.

The Sultans in the CIJ have clarity and bite, but a bottom end and mids structure that fits better with those. The sound is definitely "open" to my ears, but I'm not sure I personally would describe it as "airy" (except for the 2 & 4 positions, which are increasingly sublime :D). It has a weight to it that is particularly satisfying when playing clean with a bit of wang-bar (think "Lenny" by SRV - absoulutely nails that sound, even without any reverb or effects), but that weight doesn't muddy up when you go into overdrive.

I've not tried any recordings yet, but I have a feeling that this one could "fill a mix" with one guitar part, but it will also be able to cut through a bunch of other guitars and keyboards, still bringing its tone with it - I think it's sounding that good now.

In comparison, the IT'd Roadworn will do a "one guitar" job, but it will be a sparser mix, like Rory Gallagher's earlier albums. When it has to cut through a lot of other instruments, it either has to dominate the whole thing or lose some of its character to sit nicely in the mix.

I'm lucky to have two guitars to do these jobs - I think I've finally understood that I can't get one guitar to do both :lol:

I still don't know where the Apaches or Mothers Milks stand in this scheme of things though. I'm guessing that the Apaches are similar to what I'm getting, and the MMs are brighter.

It's gonna be a tough call, but at the moment I still think that Apaches would be your best/safest bet. It is definitely worth finding out all you can about the Sultans though :D