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Author Topic: why not a ceramic Holydiver?  (Read 3240 times)

JMP2203

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why not a ceramic Holydiver?
« on: July 26, 2010, 04:39:22 AM »
i know that the Painkiller is basically a Holydiver with 3 ceramic magnet, but why not a Holydiver with just one ceramic magnet like C-pig or C-bomb?

C-diver  :D

James C

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Re: why not a ceramic Holydiver?
« Reply #1 on: July 26, 2010, 07:04:08 AM »
There used to be a ceramic holydiver, may still be special order.

Jon (FelineGuitars) or Antag have the knowledge on this p/up i believe as Jon has used them in some of his builds and Antag has, or has had both models of Holy Diver
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Antag

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Re: why not a ceramic Holydiver?
« Reply #2 on: July 26, 2010, 09:36:22 AM »
There used to be a ceramic holydiver, may still be special order.

Jon (FelineGuitars) or Antag have the knowledge on this p/up i believe as Jon has used them in some of his builds and Antag has, or has had both models of Holy Diver
Yep, the old-spec/original Holy Diver had a ceramic magnet (13.2k IIRC).  I have two of them & really like it.  Tonally, it sits quite close to the Cold Sweat & power-wise it's in the same ballpark, but it has a little less low end & more mids (a bit like the current HD, though not quite as thick).  It reminds me a bit of the Duncan Distortion (which was my favourite pre-BKP pickup).

Tim re-spec'd the HD to its current ~16k AV form around 2006.  Not sure whether they still offer the old-spec HD as a custom order, although neither of mine were "old stock"...

i know that the Painkiller is basically a Holydiver with 3 ceramic magnet
I'm not sure that's true.  IIRC someone on here actually asked Tim about getting a current-spec HD with a ceramic magnet & was told that it would be "darker" than the Painkiller.  Can't find the post though...

EDIT to add: I think the "current" A5 HD may have evolved its spec slightly also, because the first one I got from around the time of the change was 16.4k, but the most recent ones have been around 15.5k which is pretty much the same as the PK, so perhaps Tim found a different wind to get what he wanted...

As to the question "Why not", I guess the answer is that the "gap" between A5 HD & Painkiller is not so wide that you really need to fill it with another BKP, i.e. you could decide which of those two does what you want best & be very happy... :)
« Last Edit: July 26, 2010, 09:39:26 AM by Antag »
BKPs: HD, MM, NB, PK, CS, Ab (b&n); Am (b only); VHII, Tril (n only); IT, Slow, Sult (m&n)

gepetto33

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Re: why not a ceramic Holydiver?
« Reply #3 on: July 26, 2010, 03:40:03 PM »

Yep, the old-spec/original Holy Diver had a ceramic magnet (13.2k IIRC).  I have two of them & really like it.  Tonally, it sits quite close to the Cold Sweat & power-wise it's in the same ballpark, but it has a little less low end & more mids (a bit like the current HD, though not quite as thick).  It reminds me a bit of the Duncan Distortion (which was my favourite pre-BKP pickup).


That sounds awesome!...


As to the question "Why not", I guess the answer is that the "gap" between A5 HD & Painkiller is not so wide that you really need to fill it with another BKP, i.e. you could decide which of those two does what you want best & be very happy... :)


There's definitely always a gap to fill (esp when you consider uniqueness in wood combinations), or else there'd be no need for custom orders.  Tim can't predict the market for what everyone wants out of a pickup sound, it's just not possible.  A shining merit of this company is their ability to cater to the player's need and desired tone, with custom options.

That being said, maybe there isn't a need for this pickup to be in the stationary lineup, but custom available yes, that would be great.  For instance, this sounds appealing to me, as i don't need a ton of lows, really like a broad and fat midrange with a slightly bright top.  The only thing that fills this role is pickups that have feature extremes in this range - PK has HUGE, undissmissable high mids, your pick attack always shows no matter what.  RY has the same extreme pretty much, but is just notched down lower in the range of mids, centrally resonant within that range - both great pickups, but not necessarily for everyone.

What you described about the Ceramic Holy Diver sounds like what i was looking for - basically one that's not quite as aggressive but still has plenty of mids, and stays linear with the brightness.  I asked Tim about an underwound Painkiller which he said he had never done, and had tried many different combinations to get what he was hearing as the right PK sound.  Objectively it may be right, but subjectively it may not be for everyone, hence why people look for creative options to better cater their needs as a player.

ericsabbath

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Re: why not a ceramic Holydiver?
« Reply #4 on: July 26, 2010, 03:55:32 PM »
I guess the old ceramic diver was based on the dimarzio super distortion, which probably was the pickup used in Dio's album
and it probably had a thicker wire gauge than the new diver

but I like the idea of having a chunky and middy ceramic pickup
something between the nailbomb and painkiller output levels
like a miracle man, but middy instead of focused
maybe voiced like a c-pig, but around 16k-18k
Riff Raff, Mules, Black Dog, VHII's, Cold Sweat

gepetto33

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Re: why not a ceramic Holydiver?
« Reply #5 on: July 26, 2010, 04:00:16 PM »
+1 Eric. Couldnt have said it better, but then again, you've got the experience and practical use with all of these.

ericsabbath

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Re: why not a ceramic Holydiver?
« Reply #6 on: July 26, 2010, 04:07:24 PM »
just found this old thread by Feline

http://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=1281.0

was that the first painkiller?  :D
Riff Raff, Mules, Black Dog, VHII's, Cold Sweat

Ribboz

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Re: why not a ceramic Holydiver?
« Reply #7 on: July 27, 2010, 06:15:54 PM »
Bah The C-Diver is amazing! Take the smooth singy tone of the HD but add more precision and muscular low end PUNCH! Its soo glorious. :D 
C-pig, C-Diver, Holydiver, Miracle man, Sinner, Trilogy, Slowhand.

gwEm

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Re: why not a ceramic Holydiver?
« Reply #8 on: July 27, 2010, 08:23:27 PM »
the current (A5) holy diver has the alnico sweetness though. i like it for early def leppard.
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gepetto33

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Re: why not a ceramic Holydiver?
« Reply #9 on: July 27, 2010, 11:15:40 PM »
Bah The C-Diver is amazing! Take the smooth singy tone of the HD but add more precision and muscular low end PUNCH! Its soo glorious. :D 

Do any clips exist? across the entire internet?

Ribboz

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Re: why not a ceramic Holydiver?
« Reply #10 on: July 30, 2010, 05:05:29 AM »
Bah The C-Diver is amazing! Take the smooth singy tone of the HD but add more precision and muscular low end PUNCH! Its soo glorious. :D  

Do any clips exist? across the entire internet?
Sadly, I havn't looked. :\ Some one on here will know though.

I originally had the Standard HD, and loved it. But then got the C-Diver to replace it, because I wanted more precision.
(Atleast in my head) the HD sounds like George Lynchs best solos (or maybe its my setup) :D
C-pig, C-Diver, Holydiver, Miracle man, Sinner, Trilogy, Slowhand.