Question about mixing pickups

[Dragoneti]

Hello everybody,

I have a rather “strange” question to ask regarding mixing different brands of pickups.

The question regards 2 of my guitars, one charvel san dimas (one volume / 3 way switch) with a Holy Diver bridge and SD 59 neck and one washburn (les paul style /mahogany/ set neck with 2 sets of volume + tone/ e way switch) with a black dog bridge and SD jazz neck.

I think that in both cases the pickups are out of phase with each other although I can’t be really certain. Is there any certain way to find out apart from just hearing them?

But apart the middle switch position which both pickups work together, I’m under the impression that in both guitars, bridge pickups sound better when they are wired on their own. Is it possible to be affected by an out of phase neck pickup even when only bridge position is selected or is it a placebo effect on my mind? (both guitars have been wired correctly, the charvel actually is factory wired apart from the bridge pickup wires).

One other question, if the answer to the above is yes they can be affected, how good will the black dog sound if used in the neck position of the charvel along with the Diver instead of the 59?

Thank you all in advance.
Stelios.

[Philly Q]

I think that in both cases the pickups are out of phase with each other although I can’t be really certain. Is there any certain way to find out apart from just hearing them?

Not that I'm aware of, but it's quite easy to tell from the sound.  If they're out of phase, the middle position will sound thinner, with a lot less bass, than the bridge or neck positions.

But apart the middle switch position which both pickups work together, I’m under the impression that in both guitars, bridge pickups sound better when they are wired on their own. Is it possible to be affected by an out of phase neck pickup even when only bridge position is selected or is it a placebo effect on my mind?

If the pickups are out of phase, you can only hear the effect when both are on - it won't affect the sound of the individual pickups.

However, when you say the "bridge pickups sound better when they are wired on their own", do you mean at some point you had the guitars wired with just bridge pickups, and no neck pickups at all?  That could have a slight effect on the sound, because there's no magnetic pull on the strings from the neck pickup.  It's a very small difference though, if it's there at all!

[Dragoneti]

Not that I'm aware of, but it's quite easy to tell from the sound.  If they're out of phase, the middle position will sound thinner, with a lot less bass, than the bridge or neck positions.

So its quite the difference uh? then maybe they are not out of phase as i thought... only a strange combination of pickup sound as it does not lack bass... at least not in the case of the charvel.

If the pickups are out of phase, you can only hear the effect when both are on - it won't affect the sound of the individual pickups.

OK maybe its a placibo effect! Yes if i disconect the neck pickup wire i was under the impression that it sounds better but then again just from memory so... i may be very wrong...  :P

[Philly Q]

So its quite the difference uh? then maybe they are not out of phase as i thought... only a strange combination of pickup sound as it does not lack bass... at least not in the case of the charvel.

Since the Washburn has two volumes, put it in the middle position then try playing with both volume controls - if you drop one volume you get less of the out-of-phase effect, then if you drop the other the out-of-phaseness comes back. 

It seems to be most noticeable when the outputs of the two pickups are similar - if you have a very powerful bridge pickup and a low-output neck pickup, the bridge dominates so there's less out-of-phase effect.

Hamer used to wire all their two-humbucker guitars out of phase as standard.  I don't know if they still do, but I quite like the sound.  :D

[Dragoneti]

An update on the subject... after some testing...  :)

The charvel is not out of phase after all and both pickups are unaffected by each other...

The washburn is definetelly out of phase (even tho SD and BKP pickups in general are "officially" in phase, must be due to black dogs single conductor cable) and i still think that there is a very slight difference in sound from where only the bridge is connected but then again we are talking about a very small difference. I will change the jazz's wiring and report back.

Regarding putting the black dog bridge into the neck position of the charvel, any suggestions on how it will sound? (i actually liked it as a bridge pickup for my charvel appart from lack of output, i was, and still am, used to a JB kind of output)

[Philly Q]

The Black Dog bridge has quite a lot of bass and low mids, I think it might sound overly dark in the neck position, but maybe not in a guitar with a bolt-on maple neck..... all I can suggest is give it a try!  :)

[Telerocker]

You can try, but I think it will be too dark. A VHII is a better option.