What BKPs for low-end Modern Metal - MM/CS or C-bomb/CS or..? 6505+ PPC412

[Cboysen]

Hi!

I sorta asked this question once before (http://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=24346.0)
So this is rather a quick bump-up / different perspective / new set-of-eyes sorta thing.

Problem: I'm torn between the bridge pickups, Miracle Man, Ceramic Nailbomb, and now also the Painkiller.
A lot of people in the old thread convinced me to go for the Miracle Man, due to its brutal kinda default spec for modern metal, which is what I'm all into.
Then I e-mailed Tim, and he explained to me, that the Ceramic Nailbomb was what I wanted. So now what :)

First of all.
Neck-through guitar with Alder body and Maple Neck (the ESP LTD JH-600)
Setup: JH-600 -> clean boost from DIY TS808 -> Digitech RP1000 4CM -> 6505+ 112 (converted to head) -> Orange PPC412 cab (v30)

Using RP1000 as digital preamp to get effects and Clean tone from my Gritty EMG81/85 stock pups. Using my 6505+ (666 sorta settings) to get my hi-gain lead and crunch tone. There's a noise-gate to cut a way all the background hizz for chuck-chuck palm mutes.

What I got now is a brutal lead and crunch tone, just too sterile and dull due to the EMG 81/85 set. Also it's quite a struggle to get any decent cleans at all, even when rolling back the volume. 

So I'm looking for a modern death metal / metalcore sound, not overly frypan-sizzling like All That Remains (newer stuff) / KSE, more like Carcass / nevermore / In flames stuff or something along those lines. Seeking that Brutal non-sizzling low-end sound that a cranked 6505 can produce, with Smooth Leads (thus the Cold Sweat), while still maintaining a tightness in fast metalcore/death-metal riffs.
Gotta emphasize that I'm NOT, in any way, looking for a djent-ish sound (For lack of words) nor some ice-piercing lead tone.
I rather sit gently, but earth-shatteringly, at the low-mid with smooth and 'pretty' mid/highs without losing too much articulation and bite.

I can't google the feel of any pickup but I'm afraid that:
The C-bomb is too neutral / boring / lack of definition
The MM too scooped
The PK too Sparkling and ice-piercing.

So what do you think?
Will the 6505+ / Orange PPC412 make up for the lack of low-end in the PK
Will the Nailbomb fit my guitar better since it's neck-through with maple neck, and to be frank, I really digg Tim's BKP sound clips of the Ceramic Nailbomb and Plankis Bridge Nailbomb cleans (http://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=17121.0), where the MM can sound a little too saturated?
Will the MM add just the right amount of low-end, without being too boomy and make up for the 6505s natural mid-heaviness, after all it is the closest one to the EMG 81, which I still like?

Kind regards. Christian
 

[Kiichi]

In general it is a very good idea to trust Tim, cause that guy really knows what he is talking about.

[Cboysen]

In general it is a very good idea to trust Tim, cause that guy really knows what he is talking about.

That's for certain! Still, a lot seems to like the MM for that kinda music... I suppose that I can't really go wrong wiith either. IF anything, if you got a little bit of handy-man fingers, how difficult would it be to change the pickups yourself? if so, I'd like love if i could get some coil splitting out of that nailbomb for some wonderful strat-ish cleans. Should I use some push/pull pots? Something where I can split the two coils independently of each other?

[Madsakre]

What specs do you want on the miracle man?

I got a Miracle man bridge:
50mm spacing, distressed camo cover, 4 conductor, long legs.

You can get it for 750,-

I live near copenhagen :)

[Cboysen]

What specs do you want on the miracle man?

I got a Miracle man bridge:
50mm spacing, distressed camo cover, 4 conductor, long legs.

You can get it for 750,-

I live near copenhagen :)

Really.. Thats neat! I'd need a coldsweat too though.. I've no idea about the spacing. How do I messure that? - Atm I got a 81/85 setup - Why are you selling the MM btw?

[Madsakre]

Altså spacingen er afstanden mellem skruerne på pickuppen. Det er næsten kun kosmetisk. 50mm spacing er til hardtail broer normalt, imens 53mm er til guitarer med floyd/vibrato.

Det du skal være opmærksom på er hvor lange benene er. Hvis du har floyd rose på din guitar, skal du have korte ben. Imens det er lækrest at have lange ben på en guitar uden.

[Cboysen]

Altså spacingen er afstanden mellem skruerne på pickuppen. Det er næsten kun kosmetisk. 50mm spacing er til hardtail broer normalt, imens 53mm er til guitarer med floyd/vibrato.

Det du skal være opmærksom på er hvor lange benene er. Hvis du har floyd rose på din guitar, skal du have korte ben. Imens det er lækrest at have lange ben på en guitar uden.

Vi må nok hellere holde det i engelsk når du det er et brittisk forum ;) ..

Anyway.. My guitar got a Kahler tremolo, so I dont think the 53 will work, either way - I was really looking forward to buy the new Tyger Cover, so I rather get exactly what I want, and then pay a little more - Thanks for the offer though!

now .. for a guitar with maple neck and alder body (supposedly the maple will give the most characteristics due to the neck-through), should it be MM/CS og C-bomb/CS.. for that modern metal tone.. hmmzz .. I keep finding stuff on the forum that makes me bounce between the two.. *frustration* ;)

[Shotgun]

If you afraid of the MM will be scooped and PK will be sizzling too much high-mid go to the Aftermath. I tried an Aftermath in alder+maple guitar. It has balls, great precise bass, huge low-mids and enough high to be articulate like no other pickup.

[Cboysen]

If you afraid of the MM will be scooped and PK will be sizzling too much high-mid go to the Aftermath. I tried an Aftermath in alder+maple guitar. It has balls, great precise bass, huge low-mids and enough high to be articulate like no other pickup.

Hmm .. Of the clips i've heard of the Aftermath, it seems quite djenty - i.e it is the pickup that Misha Mansoor uses.. I'm not sure the Aftermath will fit the profile of a Modern metal / metalcore / hardcore sound. But sure I'm going to take a look on it and do some more googling.. thanks!

[darkbluemurder]

While I would agree that the  Miracle Man's mids are not aggressive or prominent they are definitely not scooped.

I don't think you will go wrong with the Miracle Man or C-Bomb, and if Tim recommended the C-Bomb I would just go for it.

Cheers Stephan

[Cboysen]

While I would agree that the  Miracle Man's mids are not aggressive or prominent they are definitely not scooped.

I don't think you will go wrong with the Miracle Man or C-Bomb, and if Tim recommended the C-Bomb I would just go for it.

Cheers Stephan

Thanks! Yeah you're right, Tim is afterall THE pickup guy.. ;) And I really liked his C-bomb clips. Well I guess it's settled then. Now the question is just:

How do I get the most out of them wiring-wise. Tim suggested a Pull/push system to split them seperately - If so, can I find schematics on how to do so, and also what kind of pots would i need for the C-bomb/CS setup? (I'm really new to all that diy-stuff)

Right now my guitar is equipped with EMG81/85 - Does anyone know the spacing of those, and what kind of legs I'll be needing? You got a lot of options in the online-shop, and it's rather confusing when you don't which to choose tbh :)

kind regards - Christian

[darkbluemurder]

I would take the short legs - they should fit with no problem.

String spacing - do you have a trem or a fixed bridge? If trem, get 53mm spacing. Same for a Fender style hardtail bridge. For a Gibson style bridge 50mm is OK. Best to measure though - check where the strings cross the bridge pickup and get the ruler out.

If you have EMGs currently you need to replace all pots with 500kA pots. If you want to split the pickups together you would need one push-pull pot. If you want to split them individually you will need two push-pull pots. Most push-pull pots have 6 contacts on the switch - these are the correct ones. For a split wiring solder the green/White leads to the middle contacts of the switch. Take another wire and solder one end to the upper contacts of the switch. The other end of that wire gets soldered to ground.

If you do it with one pot you must solder the connections to each side of the contacts, e.g. neck pickup green/white to middle left, ground connection to upper left, bridge pickup green/white to middle right and ground connection to upper right. It is really not difficult. I am sure there is a schematic in the BKP support section.

Cheers Stephan

[Cboysen]

I would take the short legs - they should fit with no problem.

String spacing - do you have a trem or a fixed bridge? If trem, get 53mm spacing. Same for a Fender style hardtail bridge. For a Gibson style bridge 50mm is OK. Best to measure though - check where the strings cross the bridge pickup and get the ruler out.

If you have EMGs currently you need to replace all pots with 500kA pots. If you want to split the pickups together you would need one push-pull pot. If you want to split them individually you will need two push-pull pots. Most push-pull pots have 6 contacts on the switch - these are the correct ones. For a split wiring solder the green/White leads to the middle contacts of the switch. Take another wire and solder one end to the upper contacts of the switch. The other end of that wire gets soldered to ground.

If you do it with one pot you must solder the connections to each side of the contacts, e.g. neck pickup green/white to middle left, ground connection to upper left, bridge pickup green/white to middle right and ground connection to upper right. It is really not difficult. I am sure there is a schematic in the BKP support section.

Cheers Stephan

Thanks Stephan!

I'm going for the push/pull on both tone and volume, so I can split the neck and the bridge individually - There are several very neat schematics on the BKP site, but none of switch explains the 2x push pull, but I guess it's not that much of an issue , if anything I got friends/familiy to help me out (hate being the stupid one amongst a whole bunch of tech guys) ..

Whats the difference between short and long legs? and the braided 2 vs 4? .. I guess I'll need the 4 right for my 1x volume 1x tone and a 3 way toggle?

Kind regards, Christian

[darkbluemurder]

Whats the difference between short and long legs?

The legs are attached to the base plate of the pickup and have threads for the mounting screws in them. The long legs normally fit better with Les Paul or similar guitars. The short legs fit better with thin bodied and modern guitars. 

and the braided 2 vs 4? .. I guess I'll need the 4 right for my 1x volume 1x tone and a 3 way toggle?

Correct. With a braided 2 wire you cannot split the pickup for single coil operation.

Cheers Stephan

[Cboysen]

Whats the difference between short and long legs?

The legs are attached to the base plate of the pickup and have threads for the mounting screws in them. The long legs normally fit better with Les Paul or similar guitars. The short legs fit better with thin bodied and modern guitars. 

and the braided 2 vs 4? .. I guess I'll need the 4 right for my 1x volume 1x tone and a 3 way toggle?

Correct. With a braided 2 wire you cannot split the pickup for single coil operation.

Cheers Stephan

Well then it's all set! Thanks a lot Stephen, been a real help!

Best wishes Christian