Author Topic: Re: Black dog for Gretsch Firebird (Read 1614 times)

gjet · « **on:** January 14, 2012, 04:50:00 AM »

I just found the Bareknuckles site a few days ago. I have a 2005 Gretsch Firebird, - chambered body, just like this one: http://greatdaneband.com/Images/MusicalEquipment/Guitars/2005Gretsch_JetFirebird.jpg

I currently have a single TV Jones Classic Plus in the bridge.
DC Resistance = 7.79k
Inductance = 3.71 H

A week ago, a friend brought over his Gibson Standard and plugged it into my JCM 2000 DSL-100. I was floored at the output of this pickup - I believe he has a Burstbucker Pro in the bridge, which measures 8.7k. The TV Classic + pickup allows me to normally set the volume at half, gain at 3.5-4 for a "classic rock" Malcolm Young tone. With the Les Paul, I kept the volume at half, but had to lower the gain on the CRUNCH channel down to 1.5 - 2 MAX so we wouldn't go deaf.

I've considered routing out my Gretsch's bridge cavity to accommodate a Bareknuckles Black Dog, although I'm wavering; doing this is considered sacrilege among Gretsch players. As much as I love the TV Jones Classic Plus, it doesn't have the same punch and GRRR, mid-range honk as the BD. As some of you probably know, Gretsch styled pickups like the TV Jones series, are very "Gretsch" sounding. Jangly, treble, bright are good words to describe the tone - which I love.

But...now all of a sudden, I'm itching for a Black Dog - that mid-range absolutely KILLS. My question is, if we're comparing the output of a BB PRO to the BD, is there a huge difference in perceived output, volume, tone, bite etc, going from the BB PRO'S 8.7K, to the BD'S 9.4K? I just need more midrange bite. My Gretsch is naturally bright, and I'm thinking this BD might be the ticket to getting a much firmer, meaner tone - AC/DC basically. But I'm also worried about it being noisy, feedback etc, since the Gretsch isn't completely solid, but chambered. Any ideas? Thanks.

Ian Price · « **Reply #1 on:** January 14, 2012, 07:58:07 AM »

That's all good mate but probably would have been better if you had started a new thread rather than amend the original title of this one in your response!

Also, love that 53 conversion!

ericsabbath · « **Reply #2 on:** January 14, 2012, 08:57:47 AM »

the black dog doesn't feel hotter than the bb pro, in my opinion, but it's punchier, clearer and middier
the riff raff would be closer, but it's brighter and much more alive than the bb pro

gjet · « **Reply #3 on:** January 14, 2012, 03:41:14 PM »

Ian - what's the "Also, love that 53 conversion!" in reference to?

Eric, thanks. Well, I listened to most of the "classic rock" clips, but I found that the riff raff was a bit looser, brighter sounding, or blingy, compared to the black dog.

I really like that mid range honk of the Black Dog, I wish they hadn't downtuned when they recorded the clips. I'd prefer to hear them in standard tuning.

My friend's BB PRO had that aggressive mid-range in spades, but the top end was a bit much. Mind you, his strings were very close to the top of the bridge pickup. He'd probably have to lower it a bit.

So, the BD isn't hotter than the BB PRO, but similar in output, same kind of bite? Thanks.

PhilKing · « **Reply #4 on:** January 14, 2012, 06:09:06 PM »

Quote from: gjet on January 14, 2012, 03:41:14 PM

Ian - what's the "Also, love that 53 conversion!" in reference to?

My 53 Les Paul that is converted to 58 specs. It's in the picture and it has Black Dogs. It is a very light Les Paul and the Black Dogs are great in it. It is a very Jimmy Page sound, with a lot of mid range thickness which can be tamed with the volume control. As with all BK's, it is very articulate, every note is there and can be heard individually and cleans up beautifully with the volume control. I have paper in oil caps on mine and would recommend them along with the BK 550K volume pots, just for that little extra.

Telerocker · « **Reply #5 on:** January 14, 2012, 07:59:59 PM »

That's a stunning collection of LP's!

gjet · « **Reply #6 on:** January 15, 2012, 12:11:49 AM »

PhilKing,

I also have 2 RS Guitarworks pots in my Gretsch. A 545 for the volume pot, or 550k I think, and a 395k for the tone pot. I do have a metal film 0.22mf cap on the tone pot, but I've been thinking about switching it to a Grey Tiger paper in oil that RS sent me with the pots. Here: http://www.maxguitarstore.com/store/products_pictures/rsluxegreytiger.jpg

I never bothered to put it in because it's HUGE. It looks like it would flop around in there because the leads are wire with cloth around them, and the seem flimsy. The metal film cap is very rigid, square with radial leads that don't bend easily. Maybe I'll give it a try either way.

I think I'm looking for something that's like a Burstbucker 3, or BB PRO (Alnico V) but clearer, and edgy, but not overly bright. That's all... balanced.

PhilKing · « **Reply #7 on:** January 15, 2012, 03:13:44 PM »

Quote from: gjet on January 15, 2012, 12:11:49 AM

PhilKing,

I also have 2 RS Guitarworks pots in my Gretsch. A 545 for the volume pot, or 550k I think, and a 395k for the tone pot. I do have a metal film 0.22mf cap on the tone pot, but I've been thinking about switching it to a Grey Tiger paper in oil that RS sent me with the pots. Here: http://www.maxguitarstore.com/store/products_pictures/rsluxegreytiger.jpg

I never bothered to put it in because it's HUGE. It looks like it would flop around in there because the leads are wire with cloth around them, and the seem flimsy. The metal film cap is very rigid, square with radial leads that don't bend easily. Maybe I'll give it a try either way.

I think I'm looking for something that's like a Burstbucker 3, or BB PRO (Alnico V) but clearer, and edgy, but not overly bright. That's all... balanced.

I would swap the capacitor, in spite of its size. If you are looking for a balanced pickup, the Mule is where you need to go. I have AII, AIV & AV Mules and they are great pickups. Probably the AV is my favourite overall, but the others deliver vintage tones in spades. The AII are a bit more lose sounding but have great blues tone, and the AIV are really balanced with a very sweet tone with more treble clarity and tightness (though not bright or shrill). The AV just gives all the 70's rock tones you could ever want.

Never having used or heard a Burstbucker, I can't compare them for you.

Sancho · « **Reply #8 on:** January 15, 2012, 05:45:22 PM »

Groove Street, BKP dealer in Brussels, swears by the Black Dog for LP style guitars.
He had them installed in a Tokai LPC but it was sold before I could test it...

I've been looking into the Emerald myself (among many others) for more vintage style tones.
Thinking about getting an Edwards or Tokai LPC to fit a set in.

I don't know if the Black Dog wouldn't be too dark or honky for me.

Ratrod · « **Reply #9 on:** January 17, 2012, 11:02:00 AM »

If you want to nail Malcolm's tone, you're barking up the wrong tree if you're looking at high DC ratings.

Those 60's Firebirds like Malcolm's had low output filtertrons around the 4K mark. The closest to that on the market today is a regular Gretsch HS Filtertron for the neck position. You max the volume on the guitar, dial in a hair of overdrive on your amp, have plenty of mids in the mix and use a big load of volume.

The other big factor in Mal's tone is the double cutaway body. Sounds different, more banjo-y than the single cut.