Mules, 335, Yes

[AndyR]

Unpotted Mules, Gibson ES335... 8)

I could probably stop there...
...but, you know me, I can't :lol:

I've had the Mules for a few years now. Bought them for an Epi LP, upgraded it to a Tokai Love Rock a while after, been very happy with what was happening there. Except I don't reach for LP types very often.

Then last summer I got me the 335. Thread's here if you want/need pics https://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=25135.0.

I quite like the 57 Classics that came with it, but they do seem a bit woolly when put up against BKP'd guitars. I did a fair bit of research quietly in a non-GAS sort of way (no spare cash to buy more pickups right at the moment). I reached the conclusion that there were three possible choices for this guitar: Mules, Riff Raffs, Stormy Mondays. Seeing as I have the first two already, I ruled out the Stormies - even though I believe they might be a closer "replacement" to 57s.

A couple of months ago I narrowed it down to Mules for "first go". I was fairly certain they'd be the ones, the Riff Raffs would be good but not quite what I was looking for in this guitar. The only problems were a) what's gonna happen to the Love Rock?? - it sounds fab with Mules, and b) swapping pickups in a semi was not something I was looking forward to. The first reason wasn't too bad, when I want a solid body humbucker, I invariably reach for an SG with Riff Raffs. Just seemed a bit sad for the Tokai, though :lol:. The second reason, however, caused me to put it off and put it off. I even restrung the thing a few weeks back and chickened out of doing it then...

SO, yesterday, with a day off, I decided to do it. Could I find the bloody soldering iron??! (We moved a while back, I'd put it somewhere safe when I found it during unpacking...). No, I bloody couldn't... so I fiddled about and ended up playing the guitar for a few hours instead. I got the Love Rock and the SG out as well... the 57s in the 335 were definitely woolly in comparison, but it was a joy to play, more than the others.

This morning, at 7am, I suddenly realised where the soldering iron was. By the time the missus got up, the 335, Love Rock, and the guitar toolkit had taken over the kitchen table.

The job was done around lunchtime (with a big break for washing up last night's dinner party and having a long elevenses :lol:). The operation was NOT as difficult as I feared. But it did take a fair bit of fiddling to get all the gubbins back in to the 335. I replaced the disk capacitors with the PIOs that I'd put in the Love Rock (they just seem to go with Mules for the rock and blues I do) and I managed not to fry any pots – I was quite surprised at that, the Gibson soldering was somewhat, umm, "work-man-like": not at all pretty, but done in a heavy-handed "you're never going to want to undo this lot, are you?" kind of way :lol:

And then I plugged it in. I initially had a screw-driver in my hand for height adjustment, I'd done them by sight before restringing... but I never bothered, it just sounded too good to put down.

It was stunner before, but now it's just WOW!

Everything I hoped for and more. The Mules sounds loads better and more "me" than they did in the Love Rock. This thing is so organic now. I can play late 70s rock/metal, pre-Eliminator Billy Gibbons, clean blues, dirty blues, filthy blues, 60s pop, country, Brian May, absolutely EVERYTHING I play... without touching the amp controls at all - all on the guitar's volume and tone.

I stood by a wall of CDs, looking for ideas of what to try next, and nothing caused me to change the amp. It was all achievable on guitar controls. There was a particularly tearful moment when I started playing Free songs – oh goodness... lots of goodness :D. I even found some sounds I've never managed before, that gorgeous rhythm sound from Creedance Clearwater Revival, for example. And slide!! For years, it's been how on earth do I get Duanne Allman's tone? Sometimes you get it, most times you don't. Simpler answer now – put this guitar on, and pick up a slide, job done...

Eventually I had to clean it and put it back on the stand. A very succesful and happy boy :D


And the Love Rock? Well, I found time to finish that one off as well, and... I prefer the 57s in it to the Mules! Result! :lol:

I can hear the woolly-ness, but it doesn't matter so much the way I play a Les Paul. But now I think I know what pickups it will get if I get fed up with them (and have the funds...). I'd assumed for ages that it would be Abraxas (I was even considering some more drastic measures – Nailbombs were starting to hold an interest for me!!). Nope, it's obvious I need Stormy Mondays in the Love Rock if the 57s get relegated again.


Anyway, unpotted Mules, PIO caps. Definitely an option if you're wondering what to put in a semi for an "all-rounder" guitar.

Oh sh1t! Just remembered, I didn't play any Ted Nugent!! :lol:

[TheyCallMeVolume]

Congrats! Glad you found your tones!

[lulusg]

Enjoyed you review!!

[L.A.M.F.]

 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)

ANDY,
Your choice is spectacular and I assure you will be most delighted.
As you get used to em and learn to manipulate them even more they seem get even better.

I had a couple things done to mine like DBL relic;d white for the neck and a reverse relic's zebra for the bridge in case I remove the nickel relic's cover;s and wanted the ORIGINAL  look.
I put mine in a 1962 ES-335 that came with a set of PAF:s but they were 1958's and having a 58 PAUL without the correct pups I got a chance to not only get what I wanted for the 335 but to also make the 58 now  ORIGINAL AND CORRECT.

I too got em UN-potted, calibrated,with relic's nickel covers, but went with the 4 wire pup but for now I wanna hear just the two wire hook up leaving the red n blk taped n tucked away for now.

AS ya know the new MEMPHIS TONE CIRCUIT on the 339's is basically using a 300V 250T pot with an Orange drop,022MF cap.

I do NOT believe in whole sale changes, for then you know what it was that gave you the tone we were searching for.
To many guys buy pups, pots, caps, nut,s pro-tones hardware n change everything including a new style strings.
Well if we had done all that ya think we coud have said it was the PUPS??? or the POTS N CAPS???or STRINGS OR
PRO-TONES HARDWARE???

The most I will do at one time is strings n a bone or Ivory nut, cut to spec of the string.

I read that when CLAPTON was still playing is Gibson;s is when he experimented with taking  off his covers to see what he got, he liked it without the covers, so for I do asl well but luckily have a friend with an ES-339 that has uncovered MULES n with DBL WHITE in the neck n REVERSE ZEBRA"S for the bridge was what they were stock back in 59 even though  that particular model did not exist.BTW they were a bit to BRITE for me.
Funny thought with my TELE:S I DO like using the ASH TRAY for the BRIDGE PUP for it relates into an echo and enhances the bridges versatility.

Tomorrow I will be installing the MULES, I have it all apart right now and cleaned all the dirt off the neck and in between the frets , check all hardware, sprayed the pots.

With everything apart I may just pop em in right after dinner as I am dieing to hear em after the first st est run prior to making allthe small changes.
I have a 62 set of pots 500V and 300 T but will go with a .o47 grey tiger oil filled paper wrapped capacitor.

I expect that DELUXE REVERB to be singing the BLUES all night long..... been awhile since I spent the night with my 335 and tonight is the night

Take some pics and I'll do the same n post em tomorrow afternoon....bu the way my 335 is that transparent blackish color buthe patina on the binding is antiqued white, i do need to get some nickel parts like Stop tail n ABR-1 bridge

Well hope your;are having as much fun as I and am looking forward to hearing this baby sing... one of my favorite sings t practice for                                      s the STONES CAN:T YE HEAR ME KNOCKING????
That riff has it all and really allows ya to push it at some points n pull back at others
Cheers
LAMF 8)
.

[Philly Q]

Blimey Andy, brave man!

Surely you're glossing over some hiccups installing the pickups?  No burns (or chips) on the finish?  No broken wires?  No pots dropping back into the body, never(ish) to be seen again?

You're almost making me think a pickup change in a semi is worth doing....  :?

[Telerocker]

Yeah, very brave to this on a 335. Glad you find your tone. I love the Mules in my Saint Blues. They're very versatile.

[AndyR]

Yeah, it was a lot less stressful than I was expecting. There were a couple of moments, the worst two were connected:

1) I used cotton thread tied to each of the components. When the bridge pickup was out (where everything comes out) I discovered there were some very rough edges to the routing inside - they didn't bother tidying up at all in there. Everything was fine until pulling it all back - the thread on the bridge pickup tone broke. It either frayed on the wood and gave up at the wrong moment, or on one of the components it was twisted round (see moment number 2). Wasn't too bad, though, the pot was already far enough in to move it by poking through the F-hole.

2) All the components are arranged in a daisy-chain, you're aiming at getting the middle of the chain in and then the rest follow. Unfortunately, I didn't pay too much attention to the relative orientation of the daisy-chain and the threads I was using - getting the switch out (quite tall and needs coaxing), and then the various twisting actions during desoldering and soldering got it all mixed up. So with the socket and neck pick-up tone secured, the threads on the other controls were all tied up inside - couldn't pull them anymore :lol:.

Make sure you take it slow and not too aggressive, and have tweezers ready for when you decide you need to cut the threads and re-tie them.

I only had one electronic scare. I'd tested the circuitry before feeding it back in because I thought I was in danger of having fried at least one pot, and I didn't fancy finding that out later. As far as I could tell (plugging it in and tapping pole pieces and adjusting pots), things were fine, so I went ahead.

When all the controls were back in and secured I found the neck pickup didn't work. That was the only real moment of "oh feck, this is going to be a nightmare...". Everything else had been "ok, no worries, just think it through...". Turned out that this was the same - I suddenly realised what the 4 inches of tubing on the neck pickup lead had been there for a reason :lol:. Luckily I'd included it in the new wiring - I'd just looked at it, shrugged, taken it off the 57 and put it on the Mule before soldering. It's to stop the braid on the neck pickup lead from shorting out as it goes past the switch.  All I had to do was reach in and massage it along until it covered the relevant bit.

Anyway, unless I was really lucky, it's not as big a job as I was fearing. I'd now class it as slightly more trying than changing strat pickups - and you feel less at the mercy of errant wires and bendy plastic :lol:, you feel a lot more in control of your own destiny than when trying to get a strat scratchplate to sit back down again!

The other thing that was a surprising plus was that you don't, of course, have to turn the guitar over like you do a Les Paul - none of this bridge falling off and thumbwheels getting disturbed business :lol:

Anyone facing a 335 pickup change - don't be scared. Take it nice and slow. I set aside the whole day for it, if necessary. As it turned out, it was only half a day, and I could do it a lot faster next time (with the same guitar, anyway!). If I was going to replace all the pots and wiring, it would've been more work, and I would definitely have created a template of the body holes and installed them on that first.


James (LAMF), it was your thread the other day (along with a couple of others) that decided me to go ahead and do it now :D. I realised I just "knew" that the Mules sat in an almost unused guitar were what had to go in this one, it was just a case of doing it and the rewards could be great - just thinking about it wasn't going to get it done. Good luck getting yours in...

I think it's time to go and power-up the amp now and see whether it still sounds as good today! (And maybe investigate pickup heights a bit).

[Philly Q]

I used cotton thread tied to each of the components. When the bridge pickup was out (where everything comes out) I discovered there were some very rough edges to the routing inside - they didn't bother tidying up at all in there. Everything was fine until pulling it all back - the thread on the bridge pickup tone broke. It either frayed on the wood and gave up at the wrong moment, or on one of the components it was twisted round (see moment number 2). Wasn't too bad, though, the pot was already far enough in to move it by poking through the F-hole.

Noted.  I will consider the stronger alternatives of fishing line or surgical tubing pushed over the shafts of the pots (although I reckon the latter could come loose too)

When all the controls were back in and secured I found the neck pickup didn't work. That was the only real moment of "oh feck, this is going to be a nightmare...". Everything else had been "ok, no worries, just think it through...". Turned out that this was the same - I suddenly realised what the 4 inches of tubing on the neck pickup lead had been there for a reason :lol:. Luckily I'd included it in the new wiring - I'd just looked at it, shrugged, taken it off the 57 and put it on the Mule before soldering. It's to stop the braid on the neck pickup lead from shorting out as it goes past the switch.  All I had to do was reach in and massage it along until it covered the relevant bit.

Also noted.  I always buy pickups with 4-conductor wiring anyway, I don't like working with the braided cable.

Anyway, unless I was really lucky, it's not as big a job as I was fearing. I'd now class it as slightly more trying than changing strat pickups - and you feel less at the mercy of errant wires and bendy plastic :lol:, you feel a lot more in control of your own destiny than when trying to get a strat scratchplate to sit back down again!

Routing Strat bodies HSH gives a bit more room to play with! 

The other thing that was a surprising plus was that you don't, of course, have to turn the guitar over like you do a Les Paul - none of this bridge falling off and thumbwheels getting disturbed business :lol:

See, I knew it was worth buying all those TonePros parts!  :lol:

Anyone facing a 335 pickup change - don't be scared.

I am still scared.  :(

[BigB]

So with the socket and neck pick-up tone secured, the threads on the other controls were all tied up inside - couldn't pull them anymore :lol:.

Been here too. I suspect that's why some people use surgical tubing instead.

Anyone facing a 335 pickup change - don't be scared. Take it nice and slow. I set aside the whole day for it, if necessary. As it turned out, it was only half a day, and I could do it a lot faster next time (with the same guitar, anyway!). If I was going to replace all the pots and wiring, it would've been more work, and I would definitely have created a template of the body holes and installed them on that first.

Redoing the whole wiring on my Hofner Verythin took me a whole day - now as the name imply, the Verythin is, well, very thin, which doesn't help putting the damn thing back in place. And yes, you definitly need to make a cardboard template to get it right.

[AndyR]

Yep, you definitely need the parts wired up so that they fit the holes - as I was getting these back in, it was obvious that it would have been a whole lot harder if I'd replaced any connectors in an "oh that'll be about right" fashion. Too short would be a disaster, too long would be extremely trying.

On the threads getting tangled, it's not actually as bad as it sounds if you keep calm, is it? The connectors are dragging everything else in anyway, so as long as you can get the socket and one of the tones in, you're almost there. I could easily have panicked and pulled it all out again, but the chances of being able to untangle it (without disconnecting something first) was low... so I just went "so that's how it is it? OK, how bad is this?" and figured out how to keep what I had already and manouvre the rest around it.

I'm not sure I'd go to the surgical tubing route myself - I think I'd still have got it tangled, and it would have been harder to fix it the way that I did. I pulled some threads through from the component end to let me move the component again, some I cut and retied because I still needed the thread for pulling purposes. I could've done it without them, but tweezers almost saved the day - I recommend having them (and knowing where they are) before you start!

The biggest difference I'd do next time is to use different colour threads - six threads, all the same colour, did not help me realise that there was a problem brewing when I was stuffing components through the bridge cavity as best as I could (basically, after determining the order they had to go in, it was any way they would fit :lol:). Having done it once now, adding colour coding would be quite a help.