HSS Setup [stockholm/crawler + slow hand + mothers milk] Possible?

[phillip]

**EDIT - Please scroll down, read first post if you want some background!

Hey guys,

Long time reader, first time poster! I've also sent a similar email to Ben but i'd love opinions from all of the other great contributors of this forum.

Anyway I've recently picked up my first guitar again a natural finished Yamaha Pacifica 112J. I really appreciate it's character so much more now that i'm older. My friend is a Luthier and we're going to cut some of the body and round out the horns but for now I need to get some new pickups! I really need some help deciding because there are so many that sound amazing and it would make me truly happy to have the a unique sound of my own.

I'm looking for an expressive, harmonic sound that has a really kind of weird / odd character with a lot of versatility. I play noises that can range from grunge / funk / experimental / progressive rock / jazz / electronic (Darkside)

For the humbucker i'd prefer a bit more mid and bass and I did some research on Marc Ribot and he uses a p90 on his Gibson semi acoustic, the description about the P90 Stockholm's experimental tones seems cool but I'm not so sure about it. I'm also really interested in the vintage humbuckers as I know how much character these hand wound coils have. Basically, i'm quite torn.

For the single coils I'd like something like Frusciante and I assumed from it's name - Mother's Milk, that this could be an option unless you've got another idea for me.

The middle pickup is much more cloudier for me than the other two but perhaps I'd need something to balance these two hugely contrasting neck and bridge pickups. I'm thinking however that this single coil could be where I can play more warmer jazz cleans.

If my descriptions aren't good enough here's some videos of Ribot / Dave Harrington from Darkside

Ribot: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QLbi4E3-hI
Harrington: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRazKlAitfE

Sorry for the verbal diarrhoea, I just want to give the most information possible. Thanks so much for all your help in advanced guys, it's going to go a long way and I'm really grateful for any help!

I look forward to your responses!

Warm regards,

Phil

[Telerocker]

Hey Phil, welcome to the BKP-forum!

A P90 coupled with singlecoils has been done in many guitars and can be a great combo.
You should only beware of the balance between the singlecoils and the P90. Something like a Stockholm and Mother's Milk would provide a disbalance, as hotter P90's can sound very powerful and big, even bigger than humbuckers with the same output.
Then about the Pacifica. I had a few myself. Great, quite thin necks, good playability, but often a slightly thin tone.
I think you're PAC will benefit from pickups with an enhanced midrange.

Here are a few combo's that imo opinion will work fine and are more or less in balance.

P90/single coils:
Mississippi Queen - Irish Tours (slightly hotter, more bass, less treble than Mother's Milk, but they clean up great, you can get close to Mother's Milk/RHCP)
Stockholm - Slowhand (overall beefier set, the Slowhands have quite some mids, but still vintage vibe, that will match better the huge bass and mids of the Stockholm)

Humbuckers/singlecoils:
VHII (noncompressed, good balance with a present, but not shrill topend) - Irish Tours.
Abraxas (beefed up Mule, more midrange), some compression) - Irish Tours or Mother's Milk.
Crawler - Irish Tours - The Crawler splits wonderfull and will turn your PAC into a fat, growling monster, with still good PAF-flavour. Split the Crawler for a tele-esque tone. Combines wonderful with the middle-IT.
Nailbomb (alnico version) - agressive, throaty midrange, huge bass - paired with Irish Tours.
Holy Diver - middy, creamy old school hardrock pickup, splits very nice - Irish Tours.

I would wire it according to the Suhr-diagram with a 500/550k pot for the humbucker and a 250k pot for the singlecoils.

[Kiichi]

Well, our great Telerocker said so many good things, I can mostly just echo him.

My personal recommendation might be a MQ bridge with added Irish Tours (perhaps a baseplate in the middle one?). Thing is that the MQ is brilliant. Insane open classic rock tones with a heartwarming growl and definition that just slays. It can also take a sh*tload of punishment in terms of gain (especially fuzz). Harmonics are hardly an issue, it retains character,...
Just does a load of different styles with authority and character, punchy, full, open, growly, warm, defined. I love it and I am pretty sure you would love the rawness of it too. It can scream and sing within a roll of the poti.

Then the IT comes in. In essence somewhat of an overwound Mothers Milk, with added hotness, mids, and some magic rock dust (really, I kid you not). Retains the vintage character of the MM and can almost keep up when rolled down, but takes gain better and has more dirt in there. Amazing cleans, but add a bit of gain and something happens...
Also keeps up well with the MQ and other things.


With that combo you should cover loads of ground.

[phillip]

Hey Telerocker,

Thanks a lot for the indepth reply dude! real-appreciation!

So I think I've boiled it down to:

Stockholm - Slow Hands
Abraxas - Mother's Milk
Crawler - IT

Still searching everywhere and giving myself a headache about it.
I'm leaning towards the Stockholm for the extra bass/mid, Telerocker has said - would benefit my Pacifica.
Maybe it's too much though? Most of the demos of the Stockholm is with really heavy metal, which I don't play at all. But I do want expressive warm but crunchy tones and versatility for more experimental stuff.

Anyone got any more help for me? Would love to finally make a decision :(

[phillip]

yo Kiichi,

I just saw your reply after I wrote back to Telerocker,
Love everything you just said, really swayed me.

I've also read your review post on the Irish Tour, thanks for sharing so much information.

I'm getting quite close to making a decision and I really appreciate everyone's help. This forum is really special.

If anyone wants to add more or just agree/echo, please do :)

[Kiichi]

If you are worried about the brightness on the bridge then the Crawler is an excellent option too. Very versatile and splits like a champ. If you put that on a push pull poti you got two more sounds in there. It also delivers a great disctinctive growl in the best humbucker way. Warm and full of character in its way. Not as open as the MQ, but that is to be expected. It also is more polite all in all except for that grumble it does, a lot of which again is down to HB vs P90.

[phillip]

Thanks for the further correspondence Kiichi, I like the crawler stats a bit better than the MQ's actually.

However, a new spanner has been thrown in the works.

Ben French from the sales team has recommended a very different setup:
(starting from neck)

MothersMilk
Slow Hands
Stockholm

I never even considered 3 different pickups. Anyone have experience with this? I like the idea of it because I can just imagine how completely versatile this crazy PacStrat could do with all of this magnetic power.

If anyone has experience with stockholm that isn't playing metal, please give me your thoughts! I am only getting metal soundclips/demos on the Stockholm and I want to avoid that sound pretty much completely, if thats not possible with Stockholm then I think i'll go for:

Crawler - IT (Telerocker)

or

Crawler - Slow Hands - Mothers Milk (would love this if it's possible)

And if you guys have ever done this combination of pickups that would be too good to be true.

[Telerocker]

I played P90's before in different guitars (sorry, not the Stockholm, it didn't exist in those days) and they will clean up very nice, so I think the Stockholm will do too, as all BKP's sound good when rolled down. I don't think the Stockholm is a one-trickpony, it's just that many users play metal with it. Yeah, it's hotter and warmer than your average p90. We need different Stockholm-clips.

I personally have doubts about a Slowhand in the middle and a Mother's Milk in the neck. I would do it the other way around, if necessary. I like my neckpickup to be stronger than the middle. But in both cases you loose the balance on the fourth position, which can be a bummer if you want to play Chili Peppers-stuff. If the combination of the singlecoils doesn't matter for you, of course everything can be done. But why play a strat when you disturb this mellow funky second position by putting two different single coils in it? Just my opinion.

Ok, let me see if you like this:
- The Stockholm can be paired with Irish Tours, if you want vintage(hot) singlecoils for cleaner stuff. I won't be totally balanced, but nothing out of order too. My Crawler pairs very nice with the IT's. Not too much difference in output. The IT's have very good cleans, but can handle a lot of gain too.
- A total safe bet: Crawler/Irish Tours. Split the Crawler and you have a lot of options: from very fat to single coil chime. I have my strat wired that I can use the Crawler splitted, but also the Crawler in full humbuckermode together with the middle-Irish Tour which adds some sparkle to the Crawler. It's just a nuance, but very pleasing. Oh yeah, the Crawler cleans up great. You can steer your amp with the guitars volumepot.

Hope this helps to make a good choice.

[Kiichi]

I can see what Ben is going for and the guy knows his stuff, can not deny that a bit. My personal experience and what you think you want conflicts his recommendation though.

For one I am one Telerockers taste side when it comes to the middle/neck equilibrium. I am coming from a HSH background to be fair, but that setup, or at least that routing, to me remains the most versatile. Plus I can see HS guitars working well, but a H+middle...I dunno. The middle to me just is that extra thing which adds a great darn lot, if you drop it completly you still want a working combo, which to me SH and MM just does not seem to be. Then again that is a thing of personal preference.

I personally got the SH bridge in a 5 piece maple (+mahagony stripes IIRC) neck through with rosewood board and mahagony wings LP. Got it paire with a Supermassive neck. I put it together as my metal axe. Ususally have it around drop B or C, but had it up to drop D for proper durations too. Amazing pickup and my favorite metal choice from what I have had. Thing is that while it does retain that lovely P90 character at all times in the attack, openness, defition, and growl; it is also destinctly modern and you will never get rid of that imho. I had that certain edge and compressednes, which is great for what it does and it does it differently than a HB, but it just is modern. Put it in the a vintage amp and it just will sound modern still imho. Put a MQ (or Crawler or such) in a Vintage amp and it does sound vintage. Put it in a modern amp and it does take on that sound with a certain character which a lot of artists have. It remains more versatile in my mind.

Since you are striving for versatilitly in the way that you do I just canīt recommend the SH from my experience to you. It is versatile, yes, but in the way that it can cover all modern styles in a guitar like yours. Something like the MQ and Crawler can cover older styles easily and modern ones well too given the right rig.

[phillip]

Ok dudes, I feel like I'm really testing your patience but I hope you know how grateful I am for the time and help you're giving me. Cheers!

So I'm set on the Crawler after hearing some clean bridge demos, amazing. But I'm not set on the Irish Tour, as a single coil neck for me i'm worried it would be too fat in case I really wanted to get to a  Mother's Milk with what i've seen and read as a more woody 'twang' to it.

I've also read the rosewood board on my Pacifica would be compatible with the Mother's Milk? or it could have been the other way around?

I found a post by willo where Tim says he highly recommends the Crawler - MM set to those who want tonal versatility. I had a good feeling about the MM for a while so I think i'll go for it!

I'm reluctant to buy them straight away only due to the fact that you Telerocker & Kiichi didn't recommend this set from the start. Anyway I'll make my decision today because I can't wait any longer.

[DagleBee]

Trust your ear !! I'd go with the Crawler for the bridge like Telerocker and kiichi said . For the neck I'd choose the MM , i really liked what i heard (clips...) and if you have doubts that it won't be strong enough or it won't handle the gain you want to add , then choose a stronger middle pup to be you backup if you want a more powerful sound for leads . The middle pickup can add nuances , bu tit all comes down to what you want :) With BKP you never sound bad ( just a useful thought that I learned from the guys on this forum ) .

  I really hope you find your tone ....choosing pickups is never easy . Good luck :)

P.S. : i almost never mix my pickups ...just when I switch from one to another haha :)

[Kiichi]

Oh donīt worry mate, we like helping. We have all been there and glad to share the experience. It is not an easy thing to decide, especially cause there are always multiple pickups that will do the job well. That also leads to the recommendations being so manyfold.

The MM should also work with the Crawler, youīll just have a slightly larger power difference, but it should be managable. You could also go IT middle and MM neck, but that is down to how you like the switching around to be. So think where you like the power to me.

Plus if Tim says it works I will be hard pressed to argue with the man, he is the master. So if it also sounds good to you go for Crawler + MM!

Just remember to put in a push pull to split the Crawler, you will love it. Especially cause the split sound should sit reeeeallly well with the MM.

[Telerocker]

If you like the Mother's Milk, go for them. I have them in ash HSS-strat and they are a bit woodier and glassier. I recommended Irish Tours for some extra beef, bec of the thin necks Pacifica's have. Anyway, the IT is not much more than an overwound Mother's Milk. As soon as you turn the volumepot a tad back you are in the MM-terrority. Also IT's have still a good amount of woodiness. I thought that would be the best compromis between a good balance with the bridge HB or P90 and your wish for vintage singlecoils. Imho IT's are a tad more versatile.