Interesting dilemna

[dingleberry]

I have an interesting challenge for you guys.  I`m looking for two pickups neck & bridge, but want to put them in different guitars to be used for different things. 

Neck is for epi lp prophecy with 24 frets ebony board, all mahogany but wired for single volume pot so it`s fairly bright.  I`m looking for a pickup that works well in the neck position of a 24 fret model in thrash metal style (tuned half step down).  I`m using a sd Jazz in there atm but am not totally satisfied.   It sounds nice clean but so little mids in the jazz compared to holydiver bridge there`s too much contrast when switching pickups mid solo.  My ideal pickup has sparkly cleans, great clarity & sustain for solos, sounds great on 24 frets and will keep up well with holydiver bridge.

Bridge is for PRS SC245, 22 frets rosewood lp style (standard tuning).  I`ve got a holydiver in the bridge as well (lol I know) but would like something brighter and more open sounding.  This guitar is fairly dark sounding, my favourite bridge pickup for this one so far would be the duncan custom, but I would like something less harsh, lower output, less compression and more clarity and openness.  A fairly old school sound, however this guitar always sounds too polite so something that can still be nice and rude would be great.

So the challenge is to ideally find a CALIBRATED set that will hopefully do what I`m looking for.  I`ve got a range of pickups that I think might work, mules, riffraffs, emerald, coldsweat, looking forward to hearing suggestions!

[itamar101]

If you want to buy a calibrated set for this job then nothing will work better than the Cold sweat. No doubt in my mind.

If you are ok with spending slightly more and getting two different pickups then an emerald neck and a nailbomb bridge might be ideal.

[ericsabbath]

I`m using a sd Jazz in there atm but am not totally satisfied.   It sounds nice clean but so little mids in the jazz compared to holydiver bridge there`s too much contrast when switching pickups mid solo.  My ideal pickup has sparkly cleans, great clarity & sustain for solos, sounds great on 24 frets and will keep up well with holydiver bridge.

sounds like a neck cold sweat
not mid heavy like the diver, but still a great match

I`ve got a holydiver in the bridge as well (lol I know) but would like something brighter and more open sounding.  This guitar is fairly dark sounding, my favourite bridge pickup for this one so far would be the duncan custom, but I would like something less harsh, lower output, less compression and more clarity and openness.  A fairly old school sound, however this guitar always sounds too polite so something that can still be nice and rude would be great.

cold sweat again
it's a little hotter than the holy diver in output, but has a leaner midrange, brighter top and more articulated picking response
none of the harshness and compression of the duncan custom
think Dimebag lead tones and Ty Tabor open chord clarity under gain
just works perfetly for Nuno, Accept, early Testament and Exodus, but does so much more
it sounds great in les pauls and in PRS mccarties, so I'm sure it will sound amazing in a SC245
it's a quite focused sounding pickup, but cleans up really well and gets some nice smoother lead tones with the right amps
not an uber saturated pickup like the duncan custom and far more versatile
still got lots of ceramic edge, but output and voicing would be more comparable to a full shred or screamin demon (that are alnico powered) than to a custom
kinda like a riff raff that gave up on the kung fu and bell bottoms and grabbed a leather jacket and a freaking lightsaber   :lol:



here's a poorly recorded non-metal live video
won't hear much on the chorus, but verses sound clear
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8flZmM20nSQ
same song on studio rehearsal (the les paul tone actually comes from the bare knuckle hat 8))
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7COp9g8MHMk
rhythm guitar is a '73 lp custom with the riff raff
lead guitar is the cold sweat in a mccarty custom

but if your "school" is a bit older, the vhII set might work for you

[dingleberry]

Eric that is the most amazing use of emoticons I've seen in my entire life, a tip of the hat to you!

Very intrigued by Coldsweat set, I was heavily considering it before my first purchase.  Only real concern about that is the openness of the bridge model.  My HD bridge in the 245 is a little bit tubby and not matter what I do with the volume knob it always has this incredibly dense midrange.  Because of this I had a hard time getting some 60's/70's zep tones. 

Tim has responded positively about Emeralds, Coldsweats (for the neck at least) and VHIIs.  There's a used Emerald set in the seconds out bin, anyone want to weigh in on Emerald v Coldsweats for my applications?

Thanks for responses as always

[Miracle Man]

Very intrigued by Coldsweat set, I was heavily considering it before my first purchase.  Only real concern about that is the openness of the bridge model.  My HD bridge in the 245 is a little bit tubby and not matter what I do with the volume knob it always has this incredibly dense midrange. 

I've had the Coldsweat and Holydiver in the same guitar, and in my experience, the Coldsweat sounds very open and clear. I know what you mean with "dense midrange". The CS is a bit scooped in the mids (at least compared to the HD) which gives an airy quality to the sound, along with the slightly "spanky" top end. The HD midrange is dense and smooth, while the CS mids are airy and crunchy.

[Telerocker]

Again CS for the neck of the Prophecy. Eric described that one accurately.

For the SC245: Cold Sweats perform great in Gibson-style guitars and would do a nice job in your PRS too. They are a little scooped, which could fit your guitars natural voice. For a ceramic pickup the CS is quite dynamic and open.

If you want a quite balanced pickup that rocks and screams when you dig in, look at VHII's. They have a nice 'brown' hot but open PAF-sound, are touchsensitive and dynamic, split well and clean up to a nearly singlecoil vocal quality. The neck is great too and a favourite of a lot of rock- and metalplayers.

[ericsabbath]

Very intrigued by Coldsweat set, I was heavily considering it before my first purchase.  Only real concern about that is the openness of the bridge model.  My HD bridge in the 245 is a little bit tubby and not matter what I do with the volume knob it always has this incredibly dense midrange.  

I've had the Coldsweat and Holydiver in the same guitar, and in my experience, the Coldsweat sounds very open and clear. I know what you mean with "dense midrange". The CS is a bit scooped in the mids (at least compared to the HD) which gives an airy quality to the sound, along with the slightly "spanky" top end. The HD midrange is dense and smooth, while the CS mids are airy and crunchy.

exactly this
my '73 custom had both too, and so did my hurricane lp copy
they're both awesome, but the voicings are almost opposites

no true zeppelin tone with the cold sweat, but lots of late 70's/early 80's good stuff (UFO, dio, thin lizzy)
but I guess that's the emerald area too
the emerald's voicing and specs are similar to the prs dragon II treble

if you really wanna make this one your classic rock guitar, what you want is the riff raff
it won't sound less rocking for other things by any means
I was probably the biggest holy diver fan on this forum a few years ago, and I just can't imagine living without the riff raff/mule set in my main guitar
I play alternative modern rock, lot of melodic stuff, but we also have a lot of heavy stoner, grunge and thrash metal influences
and the riff raff does everything like... BRUCE LEE! (okay, no kung fu gif now  :lol:)

[darkbluemurder]

For the neck spot of the 24 fret guitar I recommend the Cold Sweat neck. I got exactly the same combination - HD bridge plus CS neck - in my PRS Custom. They work really well together.

For the PRS SC245 the Cold Sweat bridge would be a good choice. I would also consider the Rebel Yell bridge for this application. What neck pickup is on that guitar?

Cheers Stephan

[dingleberry]

I've currently got a sd jazz in the neck of my sc245, wonderful sounding low output pickup but I may swap it depending on which bridge I get.  Before band practice last night I adjusted the height of the jazz in the prophecy, seems to be doing much better but will continue to listen to clips of coldsweat.  One thing I hear in the cs neck from time to time is a somewhat hollow, dimarzio like quality, not sure if I like that for this application.

Discussing options with Tim and reading the comments here it sounds like the cold sweat bridge has a really useful eq and output for my situation, however the voicing might be too modern.  I've looked at/listened to the riff raff bridge a number of times as well, but am concerned with the output considering my prs always sounds so polite.  To my understanding the Rebel Yell is a more powerful riffraff, just worried about the voicing again, perhaps too modern.

I've only gotten feedback re: Emerald bridge from Tim and the guy selling the used ones, anyone else have experiences with this one?

[Slartibartfarst42]

You'd need to wait a week or so for some feedback but yesterday I ordered a set of Emeralds for my PRS SE Custom 24 if that helps. There are some fantastic clips in the players section but I will be posting a full and detailed review of them once I've given them a try.

[ericsabbath]

I've currently got a sd jazz in the neck of my sc245, wonderful sounding low output pickup but I may swap it depending on which bridge I get.  Before band practice last night I adjusted the height of the jazz in the prophecy, seems to be doing much better but will continue to listen to clips of coldsweat.  One thing I hear in the cs neck from time to time is a somewhat hollow, dimarzio like quality, not sure if I like that for this application.

Discussing options with Tim and reading the comments here it sounds like the cold sweat bridge has a really useful eq and output for my situation, however the voicing might be too modern.  I've looked at/listened to the riff raff bridge a number of times as well, but am concerned with the output considering my prs always sounds so polite.  To my understanding the Rebel Yell is a more powerful riffraff, just worried about the voicing again, perhaps too modern.

I've only gotten feedback re: Emerald bridge from Tim and the guy selling the used ones, anyone else have experiences with this one?

the neck cold sweat reminds me a bit of a modern dimarzio PAF pro, specially when placed in the bridge position, but doesn't sound hollow like the 70's stock dimarzio "non pro" PAF's I had in the same Greco les paul copy

I wouldn't say the rebel yell has anything in common witht the riff raff, except the brightness
the eq charts might be deceiving, as they show both riff raff and nailbomb as very mid heavy pickups when they're actually no near as middy as a rebel yell, black dog or holy diver
the nailbomb has lots of low mids, but sounds quite flat in the center and upper mids
the raff is also quite flat on the mids and has a lot of top end, so it tends a little more to scooped side, like the cold sweat than to the rebel yell upper mid spike
that's actually what gives it the single coilish qualities and so much openness on the mids

the emerald certainly has more top edge than the diver, if that's what you're missing

[dingleberry]

Looking for an open sounding humbucker with enough top end for a darkish short scale guitar.   Should be open enough for some classic rock but definitely needs to push the preamp.  This guitar is notoriously polite sounding, err on the side of rudeness.

For reference, holydiver was too dense in the mids and possibly too much output (hard to tell with so much mid).  Not a dark sound p'up but didn't brighen up a darker sounding guitar.  Duncan custom was a good voice, but a little too bright, too compressed, muddy, too much output.

[ericsabbath]

Looking for an open sounding humbucker with enough top end for a darkish short scale guitar.   Should be open enough for some classic rock but definitely needs to push the preamp.  This guitar is notoriously polite sounding, err on the side of rudeness.

For reference, holydiver was too dense in the mids and possibly too much output (hard to tell with so much mid).  Not a dark sound p'up but didn't brighen up a darker sounding guitar.  Duncan custom was a good voice, but a little too bright, too compressed, muddy, too much output.

that's a hard one, then... if you find the sh-5 too bright, the cold sweat, emerald and rebel yell are at least as bright as the custom
the alnico nailbomb would do the sh-5 job much better, but still on the same output level
and the crawler won't have more top end than the holy diver

the last remaining contender would be the abraxas  :)

considering a boost pedal would widen the options a lot

[Telerocker]

Mule + booster.

[dingleberry]

Yeah already using a boost with the diver, so should I be looking at lower output models then?  Mules, Riff Raff and VHIIs have been mentioned, How do their bridges compare?