SG Junior upgrades

[Dave Sloven]

OK.  I think I've worked out what it might be, and it's a design issue with BKP P-90s that affects all who attempt to use it in a 'batwing' (full pickguard) SG with this type of mount.

The BKP P-90s have a pair of what looks like rivets on the back of their baseplates where two screws fit into the factory pickup that go through a block and hold the 'batwing' mounting plate in place.  I had forgotten about this but when I first installed the pickup I had to leave the block and those two screws out, so that the pickup is mounted only by a pair of threaded bolts and nuts through the holes that normally use the long screws that in most soapbar P-90s are then screwed into the wood of the guitar.

To fix this it would involve sending the pickup back to BKP and at the very least removing the magnet and ensuring that it has the correct screw threads in place, and then sending it back to me.

I haven't heard back from Ben yet.

You can see what I mean if you look at the photos below.

The BKP (sorry the black rivets didn't turn out that well in the flash photos):






My stock pickup and the mounting system:














EDIT:

I think I might have the guitar modified so that the pickup screws straight into the wood.  It will leave me with two adjustment holes in the pickguard but I plan to replace that discoloured pickguard anyway.  That form of attachment will give a much more solid connection.  Here's Jason Lollar installing a P-90 in an SG, and he discusses the batwing plate issue.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AjOKO6D5puA&list=RDAjOKO6D5puA#t=1

[gwEm]

Very interesting update, I've learnt something. Lets hope you've found the problem. Microphonic pickups are no fun.

[PhilKing]

Why didn't you order a dogear mount?  that would work fine for your guitar, and you could still put the soapbar cover on.

[Dave Sloven]

I just ordered what I thought I had in the guitar, a regular soapbar.

The BKP soapbar would have fit okay had it not been for those two black rivets.

I think that a screw mount into wood as in that Lollar video will be best.  I'll get that done when I have the nut and bridge installed.  Until then I'll keep using the Nailbomb Explorer.  i don't really need a backup at the moment as we are not gigging.

[Dave Sloven]

Seems like we've gone back to March in terms of posts.

I think I added some since these, saying that I've had the pickup mounting converted over to a conventional screw-into-wood P-90 mounting and all of the feedback problems were sorted out by that move.

I also use less gain than I used to.  The overdrive pedals are now used only occasionally for effect, with the pre setting on the lead channel of my Peavey 6534+ no higher than 12 o'clock (5)

The Junior is with Pete Jenkins again at the moment; he's fitting a set of Grover self-locking tuners to it and giving it another set up as the neck went out when I changed from Beefy Slinky stringss to Skinny Top Heavy Bottom strings.  Also when I took all of the strings off to clean the guitar I jolted it slightly and the magnetic 'auto-lock' bridge fell off, so that went out of whack.

I'll post a photo of it with the Grovers next week when I get it back.  I had to change a string on my Explorer at band practice last week and it took roughly 30 seconds with the Grovers, so I'm keen to have them on the Junior as well.

[Dave Sloven]

Got it back from Pete tonight; here are some photos.

For anyone contemplating changing to these Grover tuners, be warned that they are heavier than the Gibson units.  I have now got a bit of an issue with 'droop', but not too bad.  I do need to hold it up though.  If anyone has any suggestions - a weight in the control cavity? - I'm happy to hear it.  I thought the weightier bridge might compensate, and it probably has done so a bit, but not enough to avoid droop

The original screw holes have been filled; the upper ones with mahogany wood putty, the lower ones with dowels (because that is a structural issue being close to the new holes).











This one shows the GraphTech ResoMax string-saver bridge and the change of the pickup mount from the 'batwing' (using the holes either side of the pickup) to a conventional screw-into-wood mounting with foam under the pickup.  This did not require any kind of shim.  The bottom of the cavity was high enough.  A GraphTech TUSQ XL nut was also fitted.  Strings are now an Ernie Ball Skinny Top Heavy Bottom set.

[Philly Q]

Grovers are really bulky, heavy tuners, unfortunately. 

You could try replacing the metal buttons with plastic, pearl or ebony ones, that saves a few ounces.  I'm not sure if they're available for Grovers, though, I've only bought them for Gotohs and Schallers.

[Dave Sloven]

It's an issue with all of the variants of the Epiphone G-400 (including the Iommi model) that have Grovers; I suspect it is an issue on the Gibson Townsend sig SGs as well. The relative lack of hardware on the single pickup body might make it more of an issue; that's why I was wondering if I should put a weight in the rear of the pickup cavity.  I really don't want to add weight though.  I can probably live with a bit of droop.

It's certainly not in the category of the Epiphone EB-3 long scale SG body basses.  The droop on those things is ridiculous: it's total neck dive.

By the way, as I think the thread on my Squier Vintage Modified '70s Jazz seems to have disappeared, that does not have any dive or droop but will soon receive a set of Seymour Duncan Quarter Pound pickups.  They were only $138 delivered to Australia (new from an ebay seller), and I don't think I want the vintage sound of the two BKP Jazz bass models. I'm sure they'll do the trick.  They are the most recommended Jazz pickups for hardcore and metal styles 

EDIT: I guess I could try these: http://www.wdmusic.com/grover_mandolinbutton_white_gx1038i.html

They would look similar to the originals and the plastic would reduce the weight, while retaining the locking functionality

[Dave Sloven]

The acrylic tuner buttons I eventually went with were the following direct replacements for the Grover kidney shaped buttons:







They have really reduced the weight a lot and are more in keeping with the style of the original buttons while still looking 'hot rodded'

I bought them from an ebay seller in Taiwan, tiasamlu. http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/160947193050

[Andrew W]

They have really reduced the weight a lot and are more in keeping with the style of the original buttons while still looking 'hot rodded'

I did the same thing on a Hamer Special I have and I was surprised how much of a difference it made. Really like what you've done to your SG; great set of upgrades.

[Philly Q]

They have really reduced the weight a lot and are more in keeping with the style of the original buttons while still looking 'hot rodded'

I did the same thing on a Hamer Special I have and I was surprised how much of a difference it made. Really like what you've done to your SG; great set of upgrades.

Yeah, fitting lightweight tuner buttons is a good mod.  I did the same on a Hamer Eclipse and on a Fender '90s Tele Thinline which was ludicrously unbalanced with the modern sealed Fender/Schaller tuners - it wasn't just neck-heavy, the headstock would simultaneously plunge towards the floor and try to swing the guitar around my back.... the bi-flex trussrod can't have helped, bad idea on a Thinline.

Generally, though, I prefer the vintage Kluson-style tuners which are nice and light in the first place.

[Dave Sloven]

Really like what you've done to your SG; great set of upgrades.

Cheers.  I really like it the way it is today with the heavy headstock issue sorted, although I could probably add a tiny bit of weight in the cavity to get it to the point where it is as well-balanced as it was when I bought it.  I certainly wouldn't need much; the way it was with the metal buttons I would have needed a big bag of buckshot in there.