Can't decide between pickups

[one]

Hi everybody, first post here.

I've read lots of sites, including part of this one and I still can't decide among BKPs, can you give a hand here, please?

Guitar specs:

27' 7 stringer
Swamp ash body
Maple-mahogany neck
Ebony fingerboard
coil tap
A standard tuning

Other:

Blackstar metal Ht5c
Digitech rp1000

I like all kinds of metal, especially:

Progressive (Opeth, Dream Theater, Tool, Pain of Salvation, Riverside, Haken, Persefone, Meshuggah...)
Technical DM (Death, Obscura, Necrophagist, Beyond Creation, Decrepit Birth, Allegaeon, Dying Fetus, Cynic...)
Black (Emperor, Behemoth, Anaal Nathrakh, Blut aus Nord, Deathspell Omega...)
Classic Heavy metal (Iron Maiden, Megadeth...)

And many more, but especially PROGRESSIVE METAL and TECH DEATH. I know it is maybe asking too much, I am aware I've listed a lot of different sounding bands, but according to BK I should get C-pigs. The problem is that I'm scared my guitar becoming a beast impossible to tame. I've read the specs and listened to a lot of sound samples, but still can't decide.

I love the SD Nazgul I recently acquired, though I think it is too all-out sometimes and it is only 16 dc resistance. What can the C-pig do with 21,5?? I'm afraid of losing all versatility with that Pup. Obviously, taking a look to my likes, I'm interested in power and brutality, but I don't know to what extent I should consider the Alnico version or the Juggs, in order to make a suitable guitar for most metal styles, not only grindcore as it looks the C-pig is designed to. Maybe I'm dramatizing too much here, but I want to be sure I can play some Obscura, to change later to Opeth and finish with Iron Maiden, f.e.

I'm also worried about the cleans. I love the LiquidFire or the SD Jazz, I'd like to know whether the neck pup would allow me to make this beautiful cleans, jazzy tones, etc.

I don't want to fail with this, I don't have access to any BKPs, so I have to choose wisely, and I hope you'll help me ;)

[littleredguitars2]

i'd say either the cpig or juggernaut but i voted juggs because i love them.

[Yellowjacket]

Juggernauts are awesome but also very modern sounding.  I think the C-Pig is an even power powerful and phatter sounding pup but the Juggernauts are designed specifically with drop tuning in mind and the cleans are phenomenal.

I think with the Juggernauts, I especially enjoy that they excel at cleans, lead tones, and rhythm tones across the entire range of the guitar.  They're so phat, tight, thick, huge, and clear all at the same time. 

[Sarkasis]

I don't think you'll be able to get Iron Maiden and Megadeth and Tool and Opeth and Dream Theater and Meshuggah out of the same guitar. There are different things that stand out in the tones of those bands. You'll either have to pick a specific voice you want out of your guitar, or find a middle ground you're comfortable with. Obscura to Opeth is doable, but going to Maiden convincingly is a different issue, and that's to say nothing of the more specialized tones like Meshuggah.

Relatively lower output, even PAF style pickups like an Abraxas will do a lot, and will get some thickness for some of the prog stuff while also giving you good cleans and classic tones in the Maiden ballpark, but will have a softer attack and won't have the "tightness" or density of modern tones. On the other hand, I don't think a Warpig is necessarily what you're going for either.

Actually with some of the high output pickups like the Nailbomb or Warpig I think you'd be much better off with ceramic rather than alnico. Alnico will emphasize more of the hair and grunt, and it sounds like you need more precision than grunt. Unless you want to go for more openness, with a little lower output, then alnico on a different pickup model could be great.

"Power and brutality" are not what come to mind looking at this list, and I suspect not what you're looking to emphasize, what with all the black metal and precise-sounding neoclassical tech death going towards more open and less saturated tones like Opeth or even Iron Maiden. I think you'll just have to be more specific about what exactly you want out of your tone to get everything you want - or you may just need a second guitar to get some of the other things.

[Kiichi]

I don't think you'll be able to get Iron Maiden and Megadeth and Tool and Opeth and Dream Theater and Meshuggah out of the same guitar. There are different things that stand out in the tones of those bands. You'll either have to pick a specific voice you want out of your guitar, or find a middle ground you're comfortable with. Obscura to Opeth is doable, but going to Maiden convincingly is a different issue, and that's to say nothing of the more specialized tones like Meshuggah.

Relatively lower output, even PAF style pickups like an Abraxas will do a lot, and will get some thickness for some of the prog stuff while also giving you good cleans and classic tones in the Maiden ballpark, but will have a softer attack and won't have the "tightness" or density of modern tones. On the other hand, I don't think a Warpig is necessarily what you're going for either.

Actually with some of the high output pickups like the Nailbomb or Warpig I think you'd be much better off with ceramic rather than alnico. Alnico will emphasize more of the hair and grunt, and it sounds like you need more precision than grunt. Unless you want to go for more openness, with a little lower output, then alnico on a different pickup model could be great.

"Power and brutality" are not what come to mind looking at this list, and I suspect not what you're looking to emphasize, what with all the black metal and precise-sounding neoclassical tech death going towards more open and less saturated tones like Opeth or even Iron Maiden. I think you'll just have to be more specific about what exactly you want out of your tone to get everything you want - or you may just need a second guitar to get some of the other things.

This is a great post. Many valid points raised and explained. Kudos!

It also leads me to think: "Hey, maybe the Emerald would be the best compromise here". Things with that is that the bridge is bright, tight, and awesome. You mention the versatility of the PAF and the Emerald operates on that path as well. I am pretty sure Iron Maiden style things should go over easily. However it also is about as tight as Alnico Pickups come with awesome openness and string seperation. This has lead to it being an absolute 7 (or more) string favorite, cause it can handle those low strings perfectly.
Also, what most people do not expect, it rules for modern metal (all you need is a proper high gain amp). Our very own Nolly praised it for modern metal. It can handle all the gain, stays tight, open, and most importantly has character.

It will not do a ceramic sound, but in a 7 string situation calling for such versatility I just have to throw it in the ring.

Second choice would propbably be a Nailbomb, but that is entirely more agressive and modern. Plus I can say less about it. Still from what I know it should also cover a lot of ground if you use the volume poti.

[Alex]

First, I think also on an axe like that (27" scale) with the big strings and the very dry and hard-sounding woods, you'll never get convincing "classic sounds". The baritone scale will always overemphasise treble and bass and make it sound too "ballsy".

I think the Nailbomb would have the best choice to pull everything off. It's slightly darker and throatier top end should also work great with those woods and avoid leads to sound brittle. The Juggernaut will make it sound very djenty.

[Yellowjacket]

Yeah, the Nailbombs are pretty awesome!  I have an A-Bomb in a Les Paul and it definitely has a vintage edge to a modern tone. The Sepultura comparison is quite apt!  They're way more gritty, pissed off, raw, and generally ill tempered than the Juggernauts which are very smooth by comparison.  The Juggernauts really pound in the low mids which gives a visceral punch to the palm mutes.  Also, there's the fact that they excel at cleans, low gain, high gain, super tight rhythm, and leads / solos.  Plus, the fact that they are surprisingly 'dynamic' for a high output pickup.

The downside is that they in fact DO sound very djenty.  The only 'flaw' is that they are unrepentantly modern.  The Nailbombs, by comparison, will give a vintage edge to the tone but the downside is that they just don't have the smooth 'buttery' tone like you hear with prog rock or the Djent purr. 

I second everyone who said multiple axes are in order.  You're better off to get different axes that are optimized for different styles.  For vintage stuff, a 25.5 or a 24.75 scale guitar in E standard or Eb standard with a set of 10 - 46s / 11 - 49s will get you those sorts of sounds.  Best of luck and do take the time to consider Bare Knuckle's recommendation.  They tend to be spot on with these things.

[one]

Thanks a lot everyone. I'm learning a lot from you about these pups. I'm sorry if I referred to a too ample sound spectrum, this was also to show my music likes, I know it's certainly difficult or impossible to get Obscura and Iron Maiden from the same guitar, but I wanted to transmit an idea of my position in music.

I'm seduced by the juggs because they say they are not so all-out as the warpigs but still brutal. What you told me about the djenty sounds bothers me anyway. I thought that djent thing was more a question of low drop tunings, amp setting and way to play. I don't like it very much, I enjoy some bands as Animals as leaders, Meshuggah or Cloudkicker, (if that is djent) but not my favourite stuff.

I think I'm going to take a chance with the Juggs, scared because of too much output of the C-pig and too harsh cleans.

[Yellowjacket]

Well, amp settings and super low tunings are a factor but the pickups do sound really smooth on some level.  I really love them myself, mostly because I don't tend to have any sort of stylistic allegiance / strong preference for how I want ALL my guitars to sound.  From a utilitarian aspect, the Juggs are amazing.  Of course, amp choice does impact tone and a super modern sounding high gain head will tend to make the Juggs sound even MORE modern.  By the same token, a more vintage voiced amp can bring out the best in these pickups but in a totally different way.

[one]

Great! that's what I thought, I don't use any super modern kind of sound like axe fx or so, don't think I'd get very djent from the blackstar or the digitech rp. I think the Juggs will be more moderated and balanced in my blackstar and maybe be more versatile and with better cleans than the Warpigs. Most people in forums recommended me the C-pigs because of the quality of the woods in my guitar, but I think I will ignore them and bet on the Juggs.
Thanks a lot! :)

[Yellowjacket]

Yup, no kidding.  Consider this vid:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGFeGtEwcsI
This guy basically cops petrucci's tone with an Ibanez / Juggernauts.  I wouldn't consider that Djenty at all.
With my own recording, I've been using a 1 x 12 with a Mesa mc90  (Modified Celestion CL80) and I find the speaker really shapes the tone and makes it more 'Djenty' sounding than a v30.  If my old school guitar tech likes the Juggernauts then they must be doing something right.  The cleans are just amazing. 

[one]

Thanks, mate, I'll definitely go for the juggs, after watching that, I'm even more convinced. Little poll success, though. Thanks again 

[one]

Juggernauts ordered!