strange wiring, strange results :)

[add4]

Hey guys

lately i wanted to start fooling up  with the electronics of my tele to try new possibilities.

here is the last thing i tried :

https://sites.google.com/site/phostenixwiringdiagrams/5-way-shoop#shooptbx

i did this mod with the benedetti pickups i had on (neck has the cover grounded from factory) and i actually LOVE it. the second position is really stratocasterish, and the 4rth is humbuckerish .. the new tone gives interesting possibilities.. very cool

then i decided to change the pickups back to my old configuration, with this wiring.
So i just unsoldered the pickup leads, swapped the benedettis for a shur neck and a the boss bridge, and ...
The second position now sounds more like a humbucker and the fourth sounds thinner (maybe out of phase, but without the caps and resistor that makes it half out of phase then, so, too thin).
i checked the wiring .. that i didn't change.... found nothing, so i thought maybe it's because of the pickups and especially the neck since i had to ground the cover manually for the shur.

So i removed the shur neck and put back the benedetti .. same result: 2 and 4th position seem reversed, i lost the stratocaster'quack' that i loved so much.
I'm planning to change the bridge again tonige, back to an all benedetti configuration, to see if that (by miracle) brings it back to where it was.

but i'm wondering if that rings a bell to anyone of you guys? maybe i made an obvious mistake that you can describe me?


THanks

[AndyR]

Hi, can't see the diagram (I'm at work), but the description makes it sound like it gives the options you would get with a four-way switch and another switch (eg S1 volume, like on a Baja tele) for "phase" switching the neck pickup.

The following might not help, but here's my thoughts:

On my Bajas, all the "phase" S1 switch does is swap the north/south ends of the neck pickup coil. The four-way gives me B, B+N parallel, N, B+N series. The S1 affects the two B+N positions. B+N parallel with neck reversed does indeed give you strat "quack". B+N series with neck reversed gives you Brian May.

However, to wire this, you MUST have a separate ground wire for the neck cover (three wires from the neck pickup - both ends of the coil for the switching, and a separate, independant wire for the cover ground). If you don't, then crazy stuff happens (if the ground is shared by one end of the coil, odd things get shorted to ground when you reverse the neck pickup in the circuit or go for parallel/series switching, like this).

It might also be that north/south ends of the coils on the benedetti, suhr, and boss pickups are not the same in all cases? "in phase" and "out of phase" can get a bit tricky when mixing pickups from different manufacturers.

[add4]

Hi, can't see the diagram (I'm at work), but the description makes it sound like it gives the options you would get with a four-way switch and another switch (eg S1 volume, like on a Baja tele) for "phase" switching the neck pickup.

it is exactly what you described, except that second position is actually half-out of phase, there is a capacitor and a resistor involved too, to give it a less extreme sound, but that's a detail.

On my Bajas, all the "phase" S1 switch does is swap the north/south ends of the neck pickup coil. The four-way gives me B, B+N parallel, N, B+N series. The S1 affects the two B+N positions. B+N parallel with neck reversed does indeed give you strat "quack". B+N series with neck reversed gives you Brian May.

However, to wire this, you MUST have a separate ground wire for the neck cover (three wires from the neck pickup - both ends of the coil for the switching, and a separate, independant wire for the cover ground). If you don't, then crazy stuff happens (if the ground is shared by one end of the coil, odd things get shorted to ground when you reverse the neck pickup in the circuit or go for parallel/series switching, like this).

Well i tried to swap the north/south wires of the neck pickup yesterday, just to see if that was the problem and i actually had no sound from the neck pickup anymore, which seemed strange to me..
so maybe the cover is not correctly grounded and i should be looking for a short somewhere?

It might also be that north/south ends of the coils on the benedetti, suhr, and boss pickups are not the same in all cases? "in phase" and "out of phase" can get a bit tricky when mixing pickups from different manufacturers.

i actually just have the colours to guide me .. is there a way to test which wire is north and which one is south?

Thanks for taking the time to help !

[AndyR]

Well i tried to swap the north/south wires of the neck pickup yesterday, just to see if that was the problem and i actually had no sound from the neck pickup anymore, which seemed strange to me..
so maybe the cover is not correctly grounded and i should be looking for a short somewhere?

I was trying to remember what the neck pickups look like out of the guitar - then I realised you (hopefully) have the ability to check. Compare the two neck pups - I remember being able to spot the difference and what would have to be done on a pickup with only two wires. You can see the two thin coil wires going to the solder points, DON'T break them. But one pickup will have something else (from the cover) soldered to one of those points, the other will have an extra wire coming off the cover instead.

Btw - it took me YEARS to figure this out - why aren't we worrying about the bridge earth? Because it's staying static in the circuit - the switching options are only moving the neck pickup around. So the bridge's earth always stays in the same place in the circuit. If you flip a switch to turn the neck pickup "upside down" then you don't want the earth moving at the same time.

i actually just have the colours to guide me .. is there a way to test which wire is north and which one is south?

Over the years, there have been various links posted to lists of different manufacturer's colour codes. But, seeing as I don't go for multi-wire humbuckers, I haven't paid much attention! With singles, I must admit, I go by the sound. If it sounds a bit hollow in combination with another pickup, I try swapping the ends over!! In this case, I'd be checking the series position - I reckon it would be easier to spot?

Thanks for taking the time to help !

You're welcome - but I'm not sure that I've actually given you any real, conclusive answers!!