NGD - SG 61 Reissue

[AndyR]

Right, 11s on first thing this morning.

I was REALLY worried about this, mainly cos I'm still having set-up issues with the tele I bought just before christmas, after its switch from 10s to 11s. Nothing I can't fix myself, I've got the nut files, etc, etc, but it'll just take some time to do it.

Anyhoo, got up this morning knowing I had to switch strings on the SG sooner rather than later. Last night I was getting used to the 10s, I was almost getting capable of not putting it out of tune!

So I took the plunge - it was SO easy, easier than the Les Paul last year. The nuts slots are no trouble at all, they're coping fine. Neck has barely moved - if anything it's put the very slight relief into it that I might want. I haven't raised the bridge yet, there's a slight buzz on the B and the low E, but I'm gonna let the neck settle for a day or two. But the best news is that the low E bridge saddle needed to be moved AWAY from the tailpiece to intonate - it was jammed as far as it would go, looks like the string they set it up with at the factory might have been a bit wonky! I've got a couple of mm to play with now if I do want to raise the action.

Sound - sounds even better now for what I want. Feel - feels like my other guitars. I'm not pushing notes out of tune in chords, and chords up and down the neck seem more accurate to me. I think that's really all down to how hard I press and hit stuff... Also, the "thin flappy neck" vibe seems less pronounced with heavier strings (actually, the effect was less than I feared anyway - yeah, it's a thin neck, you can definitely do "neck vibrato" on it, but I'd come across some folks complaining these were unplayable for them because of the tuning changes leaning forwards/backwards)

Any temptations to make any mods?

Almost certain to put Stormy Mondays in at some point. (I think it guarantees my Faded SG keeps her Riff Raffs - I was starting to think I wanted my SG sweeter, I was shaping up to take the Riff Raffs out and put spare 57s in... but now I've got this new one, the Faded can stay hard and punchy)

I might fiddle with the electrics too - I was worried it might have 50s wiring, the volumes aren't reacting like I want... but it's not, it modern (I tried 50s once, hated it). I suspect the volume pots might not be what I'm used to, though, the volume drops off drastically after 7-8. On my Les Paul I can get it down to 2-3 before you really notice a drop in volume, it just cleans up nice. I've been setting my amps with the LP vols on 5-6 for crunch - doesn't work if I try the SG like that... But I've got a set of pots, so I might check that out.

Otherwise... NOPE... It's the git I've wanted for ages (but couldn't admit it - my nickname, not used much now, has been Angus ever since 1978/9 ), and it does exactly what I wanted it to do and looks exactly like I wanted it to...

... just tempted to get the black one as well now (don't tell the missus!)

[38thBeatle]

Congrats- I have often said that I used to dislike the look of  SG's though I eventually got to play one and enjoyed just about everything but the shape. Roll the years forward and my views regarding the look changed completely to where I am today, loving the look. Yours looks lovely.

[Dave Sloven]

These have a wired harness?  If so changing pots should be easy. I was thinking you might end up with Stormy Mondays in this.

On the neck thing and the strings I am used to playing with lighter strings - I use D'Addario EXL117s (11-56) on my SG Special Faded tuned to C Standard, Ernie Ball Skinny Top Heavy Bottoms (10-52) on my SG Junior in D Standard, and Ernie Ball Hybrid Slinkys (9-46) on my SG Standard in regular E - with the plain strings lighter than the wound strings (although I have been switching out the P19 for a W19 on the third string on my Special recently), so I am used to using a lighter touch.  I probably spend more time doing bends on the low strings than you do with the guitars in C Standard (my Explorer is set up with the same tuning and strings) with my sludge metal project, but I do hit the strings pretty hard with my right hand.  In general I try to keep a fairly soft hand in terms of wrist leverage and rely completely on fingertip pressure with the left hand as it is relatively easy to bend these necks out of pitch and I suspect it would be easier again with a 61 RI as the neck joint is less stable.  You can't bully the neck of an SG around like you can with a Telecaster, unless you want to be going out of tune.  If vibrato was important to me I'd fit a short vibrola.

[_tom_]

What didn't you like about the 50s wiring? I tried it and found it made a huge difference to how usable the volume and tone pots were - they actually gradually rolled it off rather than being on or off. And preserved the high end a lot better for cleans which was important since I only use a single channel amp. However Ben @ BKP suggested I try modern wiring again since 50s loses some output? I'm not sure I want to lose the nicer cleans I'm getting though.

[gwEm]

lovely guitar, very "you" Andy!

kind of surprised you don't like 50s wiring as well, for me it was a total no brainer once I tried it.

[AndyR]

Yeah, 50s wiring didn't work out for me when I tried it. I wanted it to, but it seriously got in the way of how I'd been using two volume, two tone set-ups for years.

It might conceivably have less effect on me now, but back then I was horrified to discover how the volume and tone knobs interacted. It felt like I no longer knew which knob to turn, and which way, to make the guitar do what I wanted.

Around the same time, I found I don't like treble-bleed capacitors either. I actually rely on losing top-end when I turn the volume down... If I don't lose top-end, it feels/sounds really weird to me. On a tele it makes me think the pickups are a bit weedy and need replacing!!! (This actually happened... hated the pickups in a new Baja X years ago... everyone else on here(!) was saying how good the stock pickups were... eventually I trusted my own ears and ordered BKP Flat 50s... while installing I found a treble-bleed and snipped it off... guitar was HEAVENLY... I later tried the old pickups in with no treble-bleed... they're fine! Not as good as the Flat 50s, but I wouldn't have been hating the guitar so much...)

BUT!!!! Tom's reply has just made me wonder (I'm at work so can't check) ... is it possible that my LP Traditional has 50s wiring as stock and I didn't notice when I put the Stormies in??!

I kind of doubt it but, if it has... then I've got used to 50s wiring... and that's what I want in the SG!!

[AndyR]

An update... A "new old pots day" if you will.

It's NOT 50s wiring in the Les Paul

I did get Stormy Mondays for this SG - there's a thread on it somewhere - love them... but... it just wasn't as sexy as I was expecting. Not as "organic" and "yummy".

I've been having to use this guitar with the volumes full on and set the amp like that. Turn the volume down at all and it got too quiet real fast and muddy. It's been really bugging me.

I did a bunch of research months ago and discovered that this guitar is likely to have 500K Log Pots for volumes - isn't that what we're all meant to want with our humbuckers?

And then I discovered that the Les Paul (a 2012 Traditional) is meant to have 300K Linear Pots for volumes. When I bought the LP's Stormy Mondays, I also bought a new set of 500K Log Pots. I never got round to using them because I liked what the guitar did with the Stormies going through the stock electrics.

And so I've been umming and aahing over what to do with the SG for ages. I've figured out that almost certainly I want Linear Pots for humbuckers. But surely I want 500K? We all talk about opening up the sound of the guitar, etc, etc... So I wasn't sure what to order, so I just tried to get used to what was in there... but it was REALLY PISSING ME OFF this week


This morning I thought "Hey! My Explorer has two 300 Linear volumes - I know for certain that's what they are - I don't play it too often at the moment, how about if I do a quick swap to experiment?"

I had the back off both, ready to go. But I was a bit worried - I could easily fry any of these pots trying to get the grounds on/off.

Then I opened the box with the soldering iron and bits and pieces and there it was - the old PCB from my Faded SG when I put its BKPs in years and years ago. Aren't those 300K Linears? Isn't that one of the things folks was b1tching about back then (even if you were OK with PCB, how the hell did you upgrade the pots etc?!?!). And these don't have any solder on the back of them yet...

Well, I managed to get the two volumes off the circuit board (which is now, er, toast!) and there's just enough of the tags left to use them.

I've made the swap and OH WOW... it's a completely different guitar. THIS is the guitar I dreamt of when I was buying it...

First, I haven't lost much brightness/air switching from 500 to 300 - I haven't needed to touch the amp EQ at all. (I haven't changed strings, pickup heights, leads, amp settings, nothing - I just whipped the old pots out and put the replacements in)

There is a difference, both pickups have a slightly "chewier" vibe, a little thicker sounding. This is not "too much" on the neck, and is a big improvement on the bridge. And then the linear vs logarithmic - love it, I can use the volumes all the way down to 1 or 2. I have to get it down to 3 or 4 before there's much perceivable a volume drop, all that happens between 10 and 4 is the sound cleans up.

With the old pots, backing off volume seemed to make the sound thinner and I lost clarity, seemed to get muddy - and the volume drop made it unusable below 7 or 8 - with the 300s, it just behaves like my LP Traditional does.

The SG is now slightly thicker sounding - this is excellent on the bridge. It used to be thin and muddy when turned down - it was kinda "cr@p at anything other than 10". Now I can run either pickup at 5 for my crunch, 3 to 4 for chimey clean (there was no chimey clean before), and push it up to 10 for lead - which is my perfect way of operating a geetar...


SO, it seems - Gibson 300 Linear Pots for volumes, I'm a fan! The rest of you guys can keep yer 500K Log pots and 50s wiring! hehe

[blue]

excellent stuff

I must say, the guitars I have that respond best to volume control adjustments are my Les Paul Traditional and my Explorer, both of which have the stock Gibson pots.  Their choice of electronics has been much derided online, but maybe they know what they're doing after all 

[AndyR]

That's exactly what I thought

Earlier in the thread I didn't know what was in the Traditional and why it was so superb at responding to volume control, so sweet sounding, etc, etc... (and I'd forgotten how my Explorer reacts, I must admit - it's pretty hanging on the wall, but I haven't played it much for a year or so).

When I found out about the 300K Linear Pots in the Traditional I couldn't quite believe it, which is why I've taken so long to do anything about it on the SG - EVEN THOUGH I KNEW BEFORE I WAS INSTALLING THE NEW STORMY MONDAYS!! What a fool I was! I've kinda "known" for months what the effect would be, I just didn't realise how much I wanted it (it's been a bit like putting off a trip to the dentist!)

My conclusions for humbuckers in my guitars are now:

I want Linear Pots - that's how I want my volumes to behave for how I play.

I'll happily have either 500 or 300. If it's 500 and it's a bit harsh or thin - I canl switch to 300. If it's 300 and lacking a bit of sparkle - I can switch to 500. (It is kinda the same effect as raising or lowering, respectively, the pickups - so I'd only switch if that didn't "fix" it). I can see a situation where I might want 300 on the bridge and 500 on the neck if I was being particularly fussy with a guitar but...

I have to admit, though, I think this only really applies (for me) now that I never turn up any amp to rehearsal/gig volumes. My memory of when I was playing live is that, at a decent volume, "lack of sparkle" disappears pretty darn fast, and a harsh or thin sound is got rid of quite easily with amp EQ or tone controls.

At living room volumes, though, a guitar never sounds quite as good as it does on a hot sweaty night in the Crown & Sceptre, Hope & Anchor, Dog's Pizzle... or wherever

[Dave Sloven]

Play at gigging volumes at home, problem sorted 

[AndyR]

Play at gigging volumes at home, problem sorted 

HaHa - I just have! Sounded FABULOUS

Ears ringing now... nice glass of sherry, admiring Suzie Wolff's legs on the Channel 4 Formula 1 coverage, roast lamb nearly ready.

Life is good

[gwEm]

I've a couple of strats with 300k pots and really like them. Not that this means too much in the context of an SG, but still I think they're a useful option.