Warmoth Prices

[Jonny]

So what you're saying Wez is that it's 'remembered' each shape, you just need to tell you to remember which one and presto. Unlike what I think Fernando thinks they do by re-programming and setting it all up again.

By the way I got my email back from USACG and they gave me a quote of $195.00, I forgot to add a neck and a finish so.. sorry, lol

With a finish of ($240), it comes out to $435 which is approx. $35 cheaper than Warmoth and I say approximately because I couldn't get Warmoth to do a H-x-H configuration.

Here's my spec:

Body Style: S, Top Route
Body Wood: Alder with Swamp Ash top
Not Hollow
H-x-H
V-T-T
5-way switch
Hipshot Babygrand Bridge or American Hardtail Strat Bridge
S-style Recessed Jack
Contoured Heel

And if I wanted it completely custom, i.e. clear binding. then I'd still be better off by $20 with USACG.

$390 for a Flame Maple/Ebony neck (USACG), or $7 more (roughly) but with a few things cause USACG isn't that clear for nuts, etc.

[AndyR]

I'm guessing, from what Wez sez, that you can save the settings on a PC, and then load em up again... in which case, if that is what they're doing, then yeah, does seem like money for old rope to charge extra...

[WezV]

essentially yeah.  

tbh i dont see it as being more difficult than making sure the neck blank is in on the CNC bed correctly aligned and then running the appropriate program - but who knows, maybe there is extra setting up.  even so, that should only occur on the first neck of a batch of the same neck shape and there is still no reason for a srv to cost more than a fat

fretboard radius is different because it affects all the fretwork too so thats another process that will be altered

i havnt used cnc and i dont claim to be an expert.  but my understanding is that most of the work goes into the programming, that takes a lot of work and skill.  once thats done you have that program to run at any time!!

[Lew]

So what you're saying Wez is that it's 'remembered' each shape, you just need to tell you to remember which one and presto. Unlike what I think Fernando thinks they do by re-programming and setting it all up again.

Yea, surely once it's been entered and saved it just needs to be loaded in? It would be a bit shite otherwise?

Sorry Fernando, I wasn't slagging off Warmoth I was just saying how I see it. It's nothing to do with the actual product :) I'm still sore about the $80 I was charged for canceling the order too!

If Wez or Legra were able to get the work done before xmas then it would've been a no brainer. But I'm impatient and they were busy for the forseeable!  8)

[FernandoDuarte]

Yeah, I agree with you all, what I don't know is how much is the limit of programs loaded on on machine... If they can save ALL options of the website on the machine, then it's buggery to ask extra $ for doing the "custom neck backs" or straight radius... I guess they can't save all information and have to change a little the program when these orders are made or they're bar-stewards for asking $ for what isn't necessary :lol:

PS: to let things clear, I'm not taking things clear, I was just saying what I *think* what's more ideas than known things...

[FernandoDuarte]

Something that I forgot to add:

I had the same problems with the "extra money" than you guys had, untill I finally accept that Warmoth is very "production line" oriented instead of "luthier care", that we want (me included), that is the guy have a look a every single detail etc...
It won't happen soon at Warmoth, if you order anything, they'll go to the pile of wood you've asked and get the FIRST on the top... won't search for specific grains or figuring... They had this service before the Unique Choice, but it was really expensive, like US$100 more... I don't think they have it now, with the last talks I had with the guys there...

USACQ seems to be more luthier oriented, guys trying to get exactly the piece you want etc...
My things with them is the website, who is very poor, the few exotic woods they have, no 5A maple, no headstock veneer... plus the headstock, Cooperhead says its bigger than the actual Fender headstock and 10min sanding/cutting you get the original shape, I'm not sure, would have to see it, for the pics it seems just the same size with different shape...
I sent them a email, but Tommy was in vacation and the guy who answered me didn't give me a guarantee that I could change it to the real Tele headstock...

But I really like their approach... Warmoth is very good at what they do, but they're very reluctant in change things, so, if you find what you want simple in the website: great... if not, probably will be a pain to get that...

[Bob Johnson]

yes, but they have that program already sorted so only need to reload it before starting the CNC running.  

they do no more work to switch to a custom neck shape than they do to switch between the standard neck shapes - its just reloading the relevant program.  the custom neck shapes are no more out of the normal program than a fat or boat neck which you dont get charged for.  each customer gets charged $35 a go and i bet they do them all the same time to save reloading the program so its not like its 5 minutes changover (generous estimate) between programs for each neck

same for the fretboards, although i assume they get less requests for custom radii than they do custom neck shapes so a small charge is acceptable as the time to switch for a small number of necks should be taken into account

Er, having had some experience of high volume manufacture; if you break a production run to add any sort of variable it adds complexity. The unique neck, body, car or fridge specification has to be loaded into the production schedule, the correct materials have to be picked and scheduled into the right slot and the unique part has to be individually tracked and handled. This, unfortunately,  costs money. In any manufacturing process complexity costs money. Warmoth turn out guitar parts by the thousand for manufacturers and retailers, as well as us enthusiasts, to a well ordered and preplanned schedule; any disruption to that costs them money. For the amount of manufacturing flexibility they offer thirty five bucks is really cheap.

[WezV]

i know that bob, but thats why i am still wondering why its ok to switch between standard and fat/boat necks for nothing but not standard to SRV or any one of the extra priced custom shapes

i can order a one off neck from them that completely messes with the large production thing in almost every feature (and will pay extra for it)... then i can specify 3 neck shapes for no extra cost and a few extra neck shapes for $35 extra.  

i still dont see how that extra $35 is justified, especially since they will be doing a large number of that particular neck shape in any given period so any custom order can be added to that batch

i will say one thing, its never been enough to put me off paying it ;)  

[Lew]

Something that I forgot to add:

I had the same problems with the "extra money" than you guys had, untill I finally accept that Warmoth is very "production line" oriented instead of "luthier care", that we want (me included), that is the guy have a look a every single detail etc...
It won't happen soon at Warmoth, if you order anything, they'll go to the pile of wood you've asked and get the FIRST on the top... won't search for specific grains or figuring... They had this service before the Unique Choice, but it was really expensive, like US$100 more... I don't think they have it now, with the last talks I had with the guys there...

USACQ seems to be more luthier oriented, guys trying to get exactly the piece you want etc...
My things with them is the website, who is very poor, the few exotic woods they have, no 5A maple, no headstock veneer... plus the headstock, Cooperhead says its bigger than the actual Fender headstock and 10min sanding/cutting you get the original shape, I'm not sure, would have to see it, for the pics it seems just the same size with different shape...
I sent them a email, but Tommy was in vacation and the guy who answered me didn't give me a guarantee that I could change it to the real Tele headstock...

But I really like their approach... Warmoth is very good at what they do, but they're very reluctant in change things, so, if you find what you want simple in the website: great... if not, probably will be a pain to get that...

It's not a Fender so why would you want a Fender headstock? I certainly wouldn't want that. usacg will cut the headstock to whatever shape you like within reason but obviously they're not going to exactly copy another makers headstock. Warmoth of-course pay Fender to use the headstocks but tbh I always find it bizzare that people put these things together and try their hardest to make it like a Fender. Just get a Fender instead, they make great guitars and probably cheaper than a quality build :D

I don't think the site is too bad but Warmoth does have an exceptional website. Grading wood with *5AA etc is a very misleading sales tactic. There's no universal method and X companies AA figure can be a much higher grade than Y companies AAAAA figure.

I don't think I've seen pics of your builds Fernando, show em :D

[Philly Q]

i know that bob, but thats why i am still wondering why its ok to switch between standard and fat/boat necks for nothing but not standard to SRV or any one of the extra priced custom shapes

Probably a stupid suggestion, but maybe they have 3 neck machines, of which one is normally set to Fat, one to Boat and one to Standard Thin?  Then if you want another shape they have to reset one of the three?

Sounds unlikely doesn't it?  :?

Warmoth of-course pay Fender to use the headstocks but tbh I always find it bizzare that people put these things together and try their hardest to make it like a Fender. Just get a Fender instead, they make great guitars and probably cheaper than a quality build :D

For me personally:  I like the way "normal" Strats and Teles look, but:

1. Almost every Fender outside the custom shop has either a V neck or a skinny C neck - I don't like either.
2. Most Fender bodies are multi-piece, and if they're natural finishes the grain matching is terrible.
3. You can pick up two "identical" Teles and one will weigh 7.5 pounds, the other 9 or more.

With parts guitars you can control the variables, simple as that.  Of course it doesn't guarantee they'll sound good.

[FernandoDuarte]

Well, I don't try to make them be a fender, I just like the shape of the headstocks, don't know why, but Fender and Gibson headstocks are there for over 50 years and are standards now, IMO (not the lawyers, for sure :lol:) and a LP or Strat, Tele must have them to look like a Strat or Tele...

My tele has the original headstock but looks nothing like a Fender:
http://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=15296.0

About the woods: I agree the 5A Gibson uses isn't like the 5A I've in my mind, but Warmoth, USACQ, woodsuppliers KNOW what I mean when I ask 5A, if they don't understand I say "give me it in museum grade" :lol:

[WezV]

i know that bob, but thats why i am still wondering why its ok to switch between standard and fat/boat necks for nothing but not standard to SRV or any one of the extra priced custom shapes

Probably a stupid suggestion, but maybe they have 3 neck machines, of which one is normally set to Fat, one to Boat and one to Standard Thin?  Then if you want another shape they have to reset one of the three?

Sounds unlikely doesn't it?  :?

i really dont know whats most likely.  obviously its easy to criticise when i dont have to worry about it.  but whears you can see the extra cost invloved in most options this one does irk me slightly

[Sifu Ben]

If their machines were constantly churning out necks 12 hours a day then there would be an argument for charging for stopping the line, but I doubt they're producing that kind of volume, and more importantly, the charge for the "custom" neck profiles is significantly more than the cost for a non fender headstock shape (just as much stoppage time).

[Bob Johnson]

i know that bob, but thats why i am still wondering why its ok to switch between standard and fat/boat necks for nothing but not standard to SRV or any one of the extra priced custom shapes

i can order a one off neck from them that completely messes with the large production thing in almost every feature (and will pay extra for it)... then i can specify 3 neck shapes for no extra cost and a few extra neck shapes for $35 extra.  

i still dont see how that extra $35 is justified, especially since they will be doing a large number of that particular neck shape in any given period so any custom order can be added to that batch

i will say one thing, its never been enough to put me off paying it ;)  

I see what you mean Wez, I appreciate that I was talking in very general terms. May be the necks in question need a fixture or tool change or maybe a programing option loaded up. When I was looking round for someone to do a CNC run of bodies and necks it became apparent that a lot of the stored programs they have come from a menu, i.e. select body shape, select front or rear rout, select bridge rout etc. So there is never a complete product stored as a one off push the button and go option. Maybe that's where their complexity lies.