335 with Mules - opinions?

[MartinS]

Hi. I have a 79 Gibson 335 with a set of BKP AIV Mules, which I bought on Tim's advice. I play through a Laney Lionheart L20H. The guitar is strung with 12s.

I've had the pickups a while now (18 months?). They're much better than the ones that were in the guitar before, but I'm not sure they're right for me.

OK, the bridge pickup is very nice - crisp and solid. Slightly bright  on the higher strings, but I can back off the tone to 7. But the neck pickup seems way too bassy on the lower strings and not really sweet or "rounded" enough on the higher strings. Does that make sense?

Any suggestions / opinions?

(I've always wondered about MQs...)

Cheers.

[Philly Q]

You could try an AII magnet in the neck pickup, which I think would give you the sweet, round tone you want on the high strings.  Not sure if it would solve your problem on the low strings, though - I think it would make them less boomy, but they'd also sound softer which might not be what you want.

If Derek (Fourth Feline) sees this thread, he will no doubt eloquently sing the praises of the MQs (or Manhattans) in a semi or hollowbody.  :)

[AndyR]

I agree with Philly that Fourth Feline is the man you want...

But I'm also wondering about pickup heights - how much have you experimented? Are the treble and bass sides of the pickup the same height at the moment?

I find that, as well as the amount of output, the height of a pickup affects tone - nearer the strings gives "fatter/warmer/rounder", further away gives "thinner/brighter".

Apologies if you knew this already, but if you didn't - try fiddling with the neck pickup height, slanting it, etc... I'd recommend getting all the polepieces flat first, and then only fiddling with them if a string needs a tweak.

You never know - you might have the pickup you want already (saves all that 335 excavation that I'm sure you're looking forward to :lol:).

I have to admit, I don't think this would have a huge effect on my neck Mule in a Tokai Love Rock (les paul thing) - but I suspect it might do more in a semi?

[MartinS]

I am fiddling with pickup height right now, actually! For a long time I've had them relatively low, but raising them has given me a more solid sound which I like. I've been trying to balance the output with the volumes both on 10. Lowering the pickups gives a woodier sound, certainly on the bass strings. I wonder if perhaps I should try lowering the neck pickup to see if I get the sweetness I'm looking for, and balance the output using the bridge volume control. (Or maybe I should raise the neck pickup and reduce the volume?!)  :?

[AndyR]

Try doing it on a strat, where you want all 5 positions "perfect" :lol:

I do it by choosing the pickup that I use or favour most (eg bridge on a twin humbucker, middle on a strat), I set that one up first for the best tone and behaviour. Then I try to balance the others volume-wise. If the others don't work well like that, I then tweak those until they do - and see how much I might have to compromise... it might be in comparative volume, or it might be the bridge ends up "not quite perfect" to enable a balanced "nearer to perfect" neck... whatever it takes....

Sounds like you're getting there - I'd suggest go slow, try as many possibilities as you can... I even consider the amp settings, I use a modellor, so I can very quickly find that when it sounds right on an "AC30", there's something apparently wrong on a "Marshall". I get hours of "fun" doing this :lol:

When I've got it close, I play it like that for at least a week, and then fiddle again when I've "learnt" a bit more... Sooner or later I either a) just stop worrying - means I've got it right, or b) start thinking I might need different pickups...

But after the initial "YEEEHA!! BKPs!!" of a year or so ago, I always give it a good go before I get to option b) now :D

EDIT: Just in case both of us talking pickup heights "closes this thread down a bit" - I ought to say, I still wouldn't rule out that you might need another pickup... keep suggesting guys, I've got nothing in this area myself :D

[Fourth Feline]

Hiya Martin,

( and thanks for the 'summoning' Phil and Andy   )

Yes, I  loved M.Qs in a 335 Copy, found an Alnico II magneted Stormy Monday set left the bass strings a bit soft/ quiet in Basswood ply and mahogany neck ( so the good news is that your Maple model will probably need less 'help' ).

AIV magneted Stormies were a great balance, but the M.Qs took control, whilst also giving me all the degrees of sweetness in-between.

I would however ( in your case - or mine with Mules in a genuine Gibson ) heed Tim's advice - and add my voice to the chorus that say " drop the neck pickup lower, till it sounds right"... e.t.c.

I have Mules in a Les Paul Standard, so know that the neck pickup is not intrinsically boomy / bassy - but probably would be more so if set equal to the bridge p/u in a 335. There is the 'softening' effect of the cavity / hollow body to factor in.

Manahattans are too elegant and 'retro' for general use ( but a match made in Heaven for smoooooth or 1950s Jazz sounds) I left some 'Komedy Klips' of the Manhattans in the 'Players' section recently - to "eliminate them from your enquiries",.

So, keep what you've got, and have a good twiddle of relative bridge / neck pickup heights - but make sure your  Tone and volume pots are really 500K ohms ! as this could really be working against you if they are not !

( I had an 1976 Gibson S.G that came with with 300K pots !).

Beyond that, M.Qs are 'good to go' - and give a unique twist to that quintessential 335 tone. I could only get authentic Larry Carlton tones / tighter bass / fat sweet treble - with M.Qs in my 335 copy.  :)

Do please , please check your pots though, It sounds like you may have a bad case of '300K-itis' .

[MartinS]

Thanks for the comprehensive reply!

I had a fiddle again last night with some success despite being constricted by house volumes. This did involve *raising* the neck pickup, although I had considerably lowered this previously.

I'll live with it for a while and see how I feel. I did contact a local guy re new pots, caps and input jack (as mine seems temperamental) a while ago, so maybe that's also an issue. On the neck pickup, setting the tone control on anything below 10 just adds muffle...

Cheers,

Martin