I can empathise with Andy's take on things. Rather like the hijacking of this thread ( :oops:) if you bring a song to a band and they all start adding and amending it can end up as something vastly different to what it was originally.That isn't always bad of course but usually the writer has a notion of what he or she wants.I was once in a band where the (unwritten) rule was that you did whatever the song writer said-provided he had a clue that is. We settled into this routine and it worked well for a couple of years until a new member joined with an ego the size of a star system who thought he was the band leader and it all collapsed within months. Guys who'd grown up together ended up not talking for many years after that and in some cases never wanting to again-all because of someone who wanted to be king. Sorry, just wanted to get that off my chest as Andy's comments prompted a memory.
I much appreciate this post - sorry it prompted bad memories, but I guess many of us have them. Mine are still making me refuse to contemplate getting involved in a band again.
I made a mistake in my last band. We had a song of mine that was two or three years old, and that I had already gigged. It was going well in this new band, and then the bassist left. It was the first song the new bassist (drummer's brother) learnt. One rehearsal, he went "yeah, but the chorus isn't working". It was true, with this line up, it was falling flat - I
wish I'd spotted the "with this line up", because then we would have fixed it by sorting the bass part, and possibly the drums, they were changing slightly to fit the new bass. Instead I told them yeah, it's not is it? After some discussion, drummer said "looks like Angus (me) takes it away and works on it some more..."
I said no, that won't work, I was never
quite happy with the chorus anyway, this is the version that ended up working live, but it is a compromise. I see what (bassist) means, but I don't undertand how to do it. We either figure it out in this room, or we play it like it is, or we drop it, there's no real point in me shooting around in the dark on my own - in my mind it's a completely different song than how we're playing it. They didn't want any of the options, they wanted me to write a "better" version and bring it back for them to decide whether it was better or not. But I talked them into it with a "(bassist) what do you actually have in mind" - the minute he played a bassline I saw what he meant, I worked out how the chords would work, taught them to the other guitarist, then explained to the drummer what was going on. I wasn't able to sing over it until I'd learnt it and reorganised the lyric a bit, but that was it - that's what we ended up with.
From my "rules", if we'd got anywhere and published that version, all other versions would die, and every guy in that room would have an equal share in the songwriting.
OK so far. Except it set a precedent -
every single song I wrote after that got taken apart to accommodate the bass, he changed harmonic structures, removed the power of melody lines by forcing the band to follow the melody line's syncopation, endless fiddling sh1t - and whenever I tried to explain why it was written like it was, and the effect it was designed to have, it was always "that's your point of view, there are four of us here". After a while the drummer started joining in this as well - "you do the singing, I'll play the drums" - kinda doesn't matter too much if the drum fill walks all over the vocal between the verse/choruses then?? Apparently not... (showed up really badly in the demo we recorded in the studio :lol: "oh I didn't realise what you were on about..." he stopped playing the fill live in the one or two gigs after that)
In the end I didn't want to play, and I left music for 2 or 3 years. Considered burning all the guitars and songs, but I didn't (the woman who is now my wife talked me out of it).
Anyway, that original song... the "new" version, from a blues/country/rock song, we have a 80s/90s rock/metal chorus jumping out of it!! Years down the line, it's obviously the work of amateurs, the chorus belongs to a different song. I should have dropped the song, there were plenty others, and got them to build a different one round the chorus. Now, if I ever record it, it's straight back to the original version - "Joshua Tree era" U2 play country/blues/rock. And no-one's getting a f***ing credit for something that existed in it's entirety, and had been gigged, before they even heard it...
... hmmm... bad memories? I'm still quite bitter about how I got treated by that bunch of people. And what really gets me is that they couldn't see they didnt have an act without me. That's where I sound arrogant, I know, but it's true I'm afraid. No songs, no singer, no-one capable of putting together two hours of songs that people want to hear. They replaced me with a girl singer and her boyfriend who could play guitar and keyboards a bit. I saw one of their last gigs - everyone shoe-gazing, no "show" or characters to watch, and a set list full of ten minute two or three chord songs each one with a variety of bass solos in!!
Out of two one hour sets, the lead guitarist had two country/blues solos (where he can excel) - I talked to him afterwards... "yeah, it kind of lost direction after you went, I'm kinda glad it's finishing". During the gig, a great chunk of the audience were asking me to get up with them at the end for a jam (drummer was emigrating, I'd played on and off with him for over 20 years) - I said "no, they haven't asked, and even if they did, I cannot do that to them...". I told the guitarist about it after, and he looked at me sadly and said "it would have been great to have a jam, but thanks for not doing it..."
Well and truly hijacked thread - SORRY everyone, and thanks for reading - it was helpful typing it! :lol:
Incidentally, on the subject of Rory, there's quite a big article about him in the current issue of Guitar World (Lynyrd Skynyrd on the cover). It's written by someone who doesn't seem to be a fan particularly, so it's all quite factual and objective - he's even prepared to suggest that Donal's versions of events may contain an element of blarney!
Yep, Donal seems to have a somewhat different idea of what was going on (even to the extent of remixing and resequencing one of the albums to make it better than it was...). Read bass-player Gerry McAvoy's book "Riding Shotgun" - it's a bit traumatic in places, but he's upfront and open about his relationship with Rory.
