Replacements for SCNs in a strat

[Pedal2]

Sorry to make yet another of these threads.  :oops:

I'm thinking about swapping out the SCNs (getting rid of the not-very-useful S1 switching in the process) in my American Deluxe strat. According to Fender their output is around 6.5k (though bridge pickup is supposedly 11.6k, there must be some funky wiring going on because I don't notice that much difference in output).

It's a 1pc maple neck, alder body and I use a Fender Hot Rod Dx and a Fulldrive 2 for overdrive. I'm looking for the extra clarity and 'air' of proper AlNiCo single coils but without being thin. Rough reference would be John Mayer's clean, and Larry Carlton style (as in the level of gain) lead tones with the occasional foray into Eric Johnson territory. Despite the JM reference I think I'm probably looking for more of a 50s style set.

My thoughts/worries were:
Apaches - probably the best clean but weak for the lead tones? I've read a fair few posts that say this isn't the case but I can't shake that fear...
Sultans - I get the impression these are aimed to be the middle ground between 50s and 60s. Possibly a bit thin for my applications?
Slowhands - better for the lead tones but mid-heavy for cleans?

Thanks y'all.

[Elliot]

Reading your description I was thinking Irish Tours.

BTW - BKP can wire the pickups to work with the S1 switch - the S1 is not SCN specific.

[38thBeatle]

Don't be put off weak tones from Apaches. They are capable of cranking it out but obviously it is the amp/pedal combination providing the punch. Slowhands have great clarity and the mids are warm.

[AndyR]

I was also thinking ITs while I was reading. Until I got to the "50s style set"...

I've not tried Apaches, but I am coming close to thinking of them for one of my strats - and I'm no longer concerned about their ability to do leads as well as another set (I used to be worried about that as well). There's enough folks on here using them whose judgement and way of describing things I've come to trust/accept - and I've heard a few clips that put my mind at rest as well :D

I still think ITs would do the job, but if your mind is leaning towards "50s" - and a lot of this is in our minds - I suspect Apaches would do the job rather nicely as well, and would give you the other things that "50s" might mean in your head, possibly better than say ITs or Mother's Milks would.

I have a feeling this is one where you might well benefit from contacting Tim at BKP and see what he recommends, as well as getting the various suggestions from us. (Keep his recommendation up your sleeve though - cos many of us will go "ah, Tim knows his pickups, go with his suggestion"!!!)

And welcome to the forum! :D

EDIT: Ah! One of the very chaps I was thinking of posted while I was writing - 38th, didn't you post a blues jam from a rehearsal a while back in the clips section? That kinda swayed me for Apaches for possible future purchase :D

[Pedal2]

My impression of 50s strats is that they have a bit more presence and a different mid focus that I prefer over 60s strats. If that's more to do with wood than pickups I'll definitely consider a 60s-ish set. I shied away from the Irish Tours a bit because I thought they'd be too brash, the guitar has a bright sound anyway.

Thanks AndyR - been lurking for quite a while (bought a set of Mules a couple of years back). Don't know why I haven't registered before really.

[AndyR]

I know exactly what you mean about impressions of 50s v 60s. My 1st love is the 60s end of that, but I like the 50s end as well. Yep, it sounds to me like Apaches is what you probably ought to go for :D

On the brashness front, I learnt something interesting about my ITs a few weeks back. I bought them for a Fender Japan 62 reissue, it's quite a warm sounding guitar. I recently got a 60s Roadworn, which is a very bright sounding guitar. As an experiment, I swapped the pickups. The Roadworn's Tex Mex pickups brightened up the Japanese strat very slightly, and the ITs beefed up the Roadworn's tone.  Output wise the pickups seem roughly similar to me.

So my experience now seems to tell me that ITs have more mids/upper-mids rather than a load of extra top-end. However, I think there are some folks on here that have tried ITs in a maple board strat and found them too bright (I've just registered that yours is 1 pc maple). I've never owned a maple board strat to compare, but I do have two maple board teles and one rosewood board tele, and I seem to sense a mellower vibe on the rosewood board one (bear in mind it's got an alder body instead of ash, and steel saddles instead of brass - so I'm aware there's more involved...).

What I'm wondering is that perhaps the 60s-ish sets in general, not just the ITs, will sound brighter in 50s-ish, maple board guitar? I don't know if anyone here has got Mother's Milks, for example, on maple board strat?

I'm just waffling (waiting for my wife to get home!) - but bottom line is that I suspect you have to go for Apaches, same as I had to go for ITs or Mother's Milks for my first strat set because the 60s tone was where it was at for me.

I would recommend emailing Tim though - based on what's been said already, he might have something interesting to suggest like 50s style but a touch hotter (ie Apaches with their Alnico III magnets, but a few more winds - not sure whether that's actually a sensible idea, just using it as an illustration!). Or he might be able to cut to the chase for you with a "no worries, standard Apaches is what you want..."

[38thBeatle]

Welcome from me too-sorry, I should have said that before. Well remembered Andy I did post that(rather loose) blues jam. I am considering posting something from a live track from a recent gig when I get a chance to edit it down to a reasonable size.

[tomjackson]

I've owned Mothers Milk and Irish Tours but I think from your description Apaches would be best.

I doubt they would be thin for lead, as 38th says the push would come from the amp - that's how John Mayer and Eric Johnson get it, sweet bell-like pickups through powerfull amps....

[edgie]

Hi, I'd say get the apaches. I use them in my Edwards SRV relic strat(set to floating) and they've been there for almost 2 years now. The neck pu given that you use the proper amps and effects is capable of those JM tones as it is very detailed and clear even when overdriven. They are very balanced and versatile.

I think I read somwhere before that SRV actually has 50's pickups in his #1 strat so 50's actually are not wimpy as we may tend to believe.

[Mr. Air]

Tim makes (or at least have made) a set based on a 62 strat. Here's a link to a clip.

http://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=18719.0

[Pedal2]

Yes I did know about those but like I said I'm pretty sure I'm looking for a 50s set.

Incidentally, anyone any idea how much a loaded SCN/S1 pickguard might go for?

[Philly Q]

Incidentally, anyone any idea how much a loaded SCN/S1 pickguard might go for?

Not a clue - I'd suggest checking eBay to see how much something similar might be going for.