new multifx advise!! :)

[Dragoneti]

Hello everybody!!

I would like your suggestions on a new multifx unit to use with my Marshall heads (JVM410, DSL50, TSL60), especially with my new JVM410, because I’m not entirely satisfied with my current setup.

Let me make an overview as to what I’m using as of now, to have a better view. I have two different setups, I have made a pedalboard with individual pedals: the MXR EVH flanger and phaser, A boss CH1 chorus, a DD20 delay and a RV5 reverb in the amp’s loop.

The problem with that setup is that especially the Flanger when engaged I experience a significant volume drop and the overall sound is not as “fluid” (or solid) as when a using a multixf unit (impendence problems? Incompatibilities among the pedas? I don’t know!). I replaced my modulation pedals with a TC Nova Modulator and while the volume drop was fixed, I cannot get it to sound like I want in the flanger department (I essence I want that EVH flanger sound, which I get with the MXR pedal), and again the fluid fx sound is not there.

The other setup that I’m using is an old podxt live, which I have set it up as FX only (amp/cab sims off). With the pod, I have managed to get the sound that I want more or less, and the FX feel has that fluid/solid feel but I have a feeling that FX quality is somewhat lacking.

So I’m looking for a new multifx unit (rack or floor based) which would cover the need to get the classic sound of pedals (I only need flanger, phaser, chorus, delay reverb in essence, I mostly play 80s hard rock) in the best possible quality and work very well on the amps’ loops. I don’t need to have any amp sims (although if it has, its not a problem of course, after all my pod is getting old, so why not a new one for the silent / night practicing :) ).

So far, from a small research that I have made on the net, my options are either the Digitech ones (the GSP1101 or the RP1000) or the Line 6 M13. The T.C Gmajor 2 / nova system I’m afraid that will be just like the nova pedal which has a very good fx quality but it is not classic sounding. The same I presume would be the eventide pedal the Modfactor and of course the AXE fx is way beyond my budget.

What would you suggest? The priorities are to have the best possible fx quality, be as classic sounding as possible and work well in Fx loops!

Thank you in advance for your answers!

Stelios

[Stevepage]

I had a G Major for a while and got some good fx out of it. Didn't really know how to use it properly so I never got the full benefits of it, but what I did get I liked alot.

[BigB]

Keep your pedals and get them out of the fx loop.

Yeah, I know, "Thou Shall Not Put Thy Time Based Effect Before Distortion". Sorry to have to say, but:

1/ your FX loop is BEFORE the power amp - and you do get most of your distortion from the power amp, don't you ?
2/ BTW, on amps that have a real reverb (I mean, a spring reverb - the only reverb that sounds good in a guitar amp), it also comes before the power amp
3/  where's the FX loop on a Plexi or JCM800 anyway ?

To be true, I wholefully admit that time-based effects ought to come after distortion - theoretically at least. But then you want to put them after your power amp. And after your speaker, too. That is, on the mixing board.

Now, this being said and as far as I'm concerned, I do like the results you get from a flanged delay going into a cranked power amp. Dirty as hell, yes, but "I like dirt" :mrgreen:



 

[maverickf1jockey]

Are you quite sure the power amp distorts more than the gain stages of the preamp?

Sounds a bit backward to me.

[BigB]

Are you quite sure the power amp distorts more than the gain stages of the preamp?

Depends on the amp and settings, of course. And if that wasn't clear enough, this was kind of a half-joke answer  8)

[Alex]

Keep your pedals and get them out of the fx loop.

Yeah, I know, "Thou Shall Not Put Thy Time Based Effect Before Distortion". Sorry to have to say, but:

1/ your FX loop is BEFORE the power amp - and you do get most of your distortion from the power amp, don't you ?
2/ BTW, on amps that have a real reverb (I mean, a spring reverb - the only reverb that sounds good in a guitar amp), it also comes before the power amp
3/  where's the FX loop on a Plexi or JCM800 anyway ?

To be true, I wholefully admit that time-based effects ought to come after distortion - theoretically at least. But then you want to put them after your power amp. And after your speaker, too. That is, on the mixing board.

Now, this being said and as far as I'm concerned, I do like the results you get from a flanged delay going into a cranked power amp. Dirty as hell, yes, but "I like dirt" :mrgreen:
 

1/ Sorry, not on the amps he listed.
2/The JVM has a very good digital reverb built in, AFAIK. The DSL/TSL I don't know.

TO the original poster:
I think if you sort out that problem with the Flanger most of your problems should be solved. Try maybe using the flanger as the only pedal alone, to see if its the pedal or the effects loop. Also, is it the same on all amps?

[Dragoneti]

Thank you all for your aswers!

yeah the big problem is the flanger which as a problem, unfortunately, is consistent with 4 different loops in 4 different amps (JVM, TSL, DSL and a Peavey classic 30).

Its a documented problem (across the net) with the mxr flanger in general when used in fx loop and the problem is that i do not like the flanger in front of the amp's gain at all (then again its towards to high gain). The TC modulator although tackles the problem sound nothing like the mxr sounds (i got it a very special price slightly used so i had to try it) that's why i leaning towars a multi fx unit that would be able to emulate the sound of the mxr, and at the same time having one signal path, it seems to make the effected sound more unified/blended (which is a plus from my point of view rather than having a more distinct sound of each pedal).

In essence the feel i get with the podxt live in not bad (although its not the best either, i hear that its stregth is in the amp models and its delays, in which I agree), i get a decent flanger (and general fx) close to the original pedal (although there is not a direct model emulation of the mxr pedal, in later units like x3 or m13, it exists), so all that i want is a fx unit that will have an upgraded fx quality and works well in fx loops (and some times a wet/dry setup with 2 amps).

That's why i'm looking in either the gsp1101/rp1000 or the m13. I hear that the digitech are better in the fx loop and have the edge on the modulation fx.

The gmajor 2 is among my choices (after all is about the same price as the others and the first version is used by many) but i'm afraid that it may have the same problem as the modulator, which provides quality in the fx but not that classic sound of the mxr pedals. Has anyone made the g major (or the modulator...by all means please share) sound like the evh mxr flanger and phaser sound?

thank you again for your answers!

Stelios

[Antag]

FWIW, I've never used pedals in an FX loop, nor would I ever do so.

IMHO there's nothing wrong with a Flanger or a phaser in front of the amp.  I have a rack unit (TC Electronic G-Sharp, previously a G-Major) in the loop for reverb & delay, but my modulation FX are on the board in front of the amp.

[Dragoneti]

Yeah i know that you can run the modulation fx in front but i don't like how they sound with the amp's gain, i play my jvm on od1 orange gain about 5 for some 80s hair metal gain!

[froglord]

Try out a Line 6 M9 (or M13). Great effects quality and user interface.

[Dragoneti]

Thank you for your answer!!

I did some more research and some tests (now that in Greece is easter holiday time so no work the last couple of days). So my options are either going to line 6 m13, a TC G major 2 or an Eventide modfactor and use it with my dd20. Money wise all three options cost about the same (the gmajor needs also a midi controler but i may use the pod for it).

What would you choose? I only need a chorus/flanger/phaser (evh / 80s hair metal style) + delay sound (reverb is optional Jvm has a good one if needed and i also have an rv5 sitting). No amp modeling i decided, my pod serves me well for the time being, later on, i may buy a separate solution for it.

The requirment is to be able to produce the best possible fx quality to the amp's loop without problems like level incompatibilities etc