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Author Topic: Baritone pickup for metal  (Read 4973 times)

Swedjent

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Baritone pickup for metal
« on: July 04, 2010, 07:45:45 PM »
I have an OLP baritone 30" scale guitar, with a truly shitety bridge pickup. I want to change it, and as bareknuckle seems to be djent as ZOMG here I am! The problem is that I'm kinda new to playing guitar, I'm actually a bassplayer. I really don't know anything about guitarpickups, and if someone shows a clip I can't tell what the pickup does. So I really can't decide for myself.

From what I've heard recommended for this type of guitar is the cold sweat or painkiller, is that true? I'm a huge meshuggah fan, and I also love bulb and periphery. What I would like is something like a mix of them, with the deep of meshuggah but the crush of bulb. The guitar is tuned in G now, but as soon as I have a new set of strings I will probably have it tuned in like E or something.

And finally I'll just have to use this smiley because of its' pure awesomeness.  :shock:

MDV

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Re: Baritone pickup for metal
« Reply #1 on: July 04, 2010, 10:28:25 PM »
Welcome

On the 'dont know what the pickup does' - dont really expect to, mate. When people (including me) record clips for the pickups its a guide or indicator as to the sounds that are possible, but you've got to remember at all times that the sound youre hearing is made by all sorts of things, including but not limited to

The guitar
The setup on the guitar
The amp
The settings on the amp
The cab
The speakers
The strings
The tuning
The room
The mic
The mic preamp
The patch
The impulses
The DACs and ADCs in the soundcard
The pick
....The player

etc etc etc etc

You never really know what aspects of the sound the pickup is responsible for unless youre already very familiar with the gear. Beyond that its more of a 'this is what can be done with this pickup' not a 'this is what this pickup sounds like', because so much of the sound not the pickup.

Anyway, theres a recieved wisdom kicking round here that lower output pickups work well on very long scales and low tunings. I dont fully recall the reasoning behind that so I'll let one of the other guys (wez or roo, basically :lol:) chip in on it.

For meshuggah/periphery in general, were I making the recommendation for a more normally scaled guitar (up to 27", say) I'd go for the Painkiller for meshuggah, and I've pretty sure Misha uses c-pigs, painkilers and cold sweats, or at least one of each, or hes at least been on here with clips of those...I think :lol: Nolly would be the man to ask about these sounds, but my vote would be Cold Sweat: hot enough without going nuts, enough low end to let the extreme lowness of your tuning 'crush', and it has the top end and attack youre going to need to keep things clear when that deep.

Roobubba

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Re: Baritone pickup for metal
« Reply #2 on: July 04, 2010, 11:58:38 PM »
I think MDV is spot on with the cold sweat.

I had a black dog in my 27.5"-on-the-bass-side baritone, and that absolutely slayed. It's now got a miracle man in it because I fancied a change, but neither of these is a Djent pickup.

You seek the cold sweat. Ultra tight for the low tunings, without being so hot that the huge strings and large string excursion from the long scale length make it a bit flabby.

I'm assuming you'll be using fat strings (ie 0.070+ for the bass side).

Hope this helps

Roo

Swedjent

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Re: Baritone pickup for metal
« Reply #3 on: July 05, 2010, 09:01:37 AM »
Thanks, this really was helpful! I'm now leaning towards the cold sweat, but could someone just explain the difference between the painkiller and cold sweat?

Alex

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Re: Baritone pickup for metal
« Reply #4 on: July 05, 2010, 05:58:24 PM »
I would also guess something not too hot would work better. For unknown reasons people always go with superhot pickups on superlow tunings - IMO the lower you go the cleaner you want the pickup to be. Keep in mind you can always boost/dirty a signal with an Overdrive, but you cannot clean it up!!!

And since you're a Meshuggah fan I might point out that when they were still using 7-string Universes both players used to try to reduce the outputs on their DiMarzios to make the signal clearer by putting tape and stuff on them (no joke!).

So Cold Sweat or Black Dog should both work well.
Current BKPs: Miracle Man, Nailbomb, Juggernaut, VHII
Past BKPS: Holy Diver, Trilogy Suite, Sinner, Black Dog

MDV

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Re: Baritone pickup for metal
« Reply #5 on: July 05, 2010, 10:08:28 PM »
I would also guess something not too hot would work better. For unknown reasons people always go with superhot pickups on superlow tunings - IMO the lower you go the cleaner you want the pickup to be. Keep in mind you can always boost/dirty a signal with an Overdrive, but you cannot clean it up!!!

And since you're a Meshuggah fan I might point out that when they were still using 7-string Universes both players used to try to reduce the outputs on their DiMarzios to make the signal clearer by putting tape and stuff on them (no joke!).

So Cold Sweat or Black Dog should both work well.

There is some truth to this, adn I find that in drop B on 25.5 guitars the best results in terms of hitting your pre hard *enough* with a pickup that has a percussive and thick, saturated voicing but is still clear comes, generally speaking in the BK range, from the mid-high output pickups. The main 2 kinds I use are ceramics with 15ish and 16ish k dcr (Aftermaths and C-Bombs are what I've pretty much settled on). I've taken those down to drop A without trouble, never bothered tuning lower on my main guitars (which is mainly a scale/string gauge thing).

Too much power and you start to drive low frequencies a little too hard/highs not enough and things can get muddy. For my taste at least. I like precision. Its not really a problem down to, say, c#/c, but start to get lower and you start to hear the 'hot' and 'ultra-hot' pickups diverge in clarity (likewise A5 and ceramic start to seperate in clarity and tightness quite a bit in the same sort of region, in my experience, which is primarily with the NB and WP from the bk A5 conteporaries).

Meshuggah now use lundgren M7s and M8s: really hot pickups, so I dont know if they still do anything to reduce their power. If they were trying to get ultra-clear detuned sounds from dimarzios, I can see why they'd have to pull a few tricks! But I'm led to believe that lundgren are at least of the same order of magnitude of quality as BK, so perhaps they retain clarity and power as the high output BKs do. I dunno, I havent tried them.

The PK is hotter than the cold sweat, it has a high mid spike that gives it extreme note definition, but some (including me) consider 'spikey', LOTS of mids and a fair bit of treble against what you might call 'enough' bass to keep things heavy, and its very tight.

The CS is brighter, more open and organic with similar note definition without the spikeyness, less mids, I thnk it has less bass, and is more dynamic and responsive. If you wanted to do the same sort of thing in a higher tuning (like in A1 - C#1 or so) then the PK would be a good choice too, but while it detunes (to more conventional ranges!) really well, I think as low as youre going youre going to need all the top end and clarity you can get, and the CS is going to be the way to do it - I'd anticipate a tonal ballance thats more within what you ecxpect (very heavy, still defined) from the brighter pickup, where the PK may still kick out too much in the lows and have a bit much power and leave you with too much low end drive, when that extremely low.

MDV

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Re: Baritone pickup for metal
« Reply #6 on: July 05, 2010, 10:19:06 PM »
I should clarify that when I said painkiller for meshuggah on 27" before, I meant in a corresoponding sensible tuning for 27" as well, like B or A - your request being quite unusual I dont think you should do that.

That said, well done for getting a sensible scale for such a low tuning - you often see 8s that are supposed to go to F- ish that are 26.5/27, which is an exercise in futility if you want a really tight, clear tone, imo.

IAMBR00TALZ

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Re: Baritone pickup for metal
« Reply #7 on: July 08, 2010, 09:21:59 PM »
Painkiller.  Clarity is unmatched.