HSS advice

[Doadman]

New pickups for my guitar aren't an immediate priority right now as I'm saving up for a new amp first but I am starting to think about what I'd install so thought I'd ask for advice. First off, here's the gear I'm using (or will be when I get the amp):

Jackson SL3 Soloist
Marshall JVM 410H
Marshall 1960A 4X12
Weeping Demon, MXR Super Compressor and Bad Monkey before the amp and a Hardwire Delay and Chorus in the loop.

I'm in a Rock covers band so I need some versatility. At one end of the spectrum I play Jackie Wilson's 'Higher and Higher' clean on the neck pickup and at the other extreme it's Black Sabbath and Iron Maiden. When I do use distortion, I tend to use rather more than was on the original record so Iron Maiden can be fairly saturated.

What I'm looking for:

Bridge

This is where I'll spend most of my time so I need to get this right. I do sometimes use this pickup clean, though mostly it will be used for distorted tones. I like the distortion to be well articulated and defined but not to the point of sounding harsh. I hate muddiness in any form. It has to be good for distortion but not at the expense of a rich tone.


Neck

If anything this needs to be even more versatile as I need it for cleans, a Blues tone, and Rock/Metal leads. I want it to give a searing lead that has a creaminess to it, very much like the Dave Murray lead tone. It's ironic I know that I'm referring to a Dave Murray tone when he uses Seymour Duncan Hot Rails and that's the very pickup I have in the guitar at the moment! Don't get me wrong, it's a good pickup, especially on high leads but in some situations it can get a little woolly and muddy. Obviously it needs to be a good match for the bridge pickup.

Middle

I use this pickup least and so far, never on its own. I do sometimes use it with the neck pickup to get a slightly different tone and I do sometimes use it with distortion on the bridge and a bit of Chorus just to mellow out the sound a little.


To be honest, to stick with single coil sized humbuckers I've been tempted to go with a set of DiMarzios like maybe a Tone Zone and Air Nortons but my heart tells me that Bare Knuckle are simply the best so I should go back to them (I had a Cold Sweat set on my previous guitar.

Any ideas?

Thanks

[Telerocker]

Sounds like you are looking for a Holydiver-humbucker with Trilogy-single coils. In my HSS-strat I use a Crawler and IT's, but these give a more vintage Hendrix/Stevie Ray-sound. Crawler could be an alternative for Holydiver. Very creamy and fat, but articulate and cleans up well. The Holydiver is what I read very suitable for 80's metal and lots of people rave about this puppie.

[Doadman]

My first thought was Holy Diver as I assumed that ceramic pups would be too much in Alder and maple but the stock pups seem to work fine and they're all ceramic. Tim has also suggested Trilogy suites so that seems to be the way to go. The issue is the bridge and I'm sorely tempted to just go with what he suggested as he knows best, which was a Miracle Man. However, while the Miracle Man is very articulate, based on the clips I've heard I'm a little concerned that the tone may lack some of the richness I'm after and therefore lose a bit of versatility. I always think of the Miracle Man as a bit like a passive version of an active EMG and I don't like actives precisely because they sound too harsh, sterile and 2-dimensional. No doubt the Miracle Man would be better but the basic point stands. I was toying with a Painkiller as a bit of a compromise so it had enough balls for heavy distortion but maintained more richness and complexity to the tone while the ceramic magnet would offer a contrast to the Trilogy Suites. Having said that, I'm sure the Holy Diver would work well. Why did Tim stop doing the ceramic Holy Diver?

Any other suggestions or comments on what's been said?

[Telerocker]

Yes a Miracle Man is maybe not the best pickup to clean up like alnico's do. Ceramics can sound clean somewhat harsh, but I never played the MM. I would probably prefer a Holy Diver.

[Antag]

The Holydiver is what I read very suitable for 80's metal and lots of people rave about this puppie.

...yep, that would be me :)

My SL3 has a Holy Diver with Slowhands.  I would totally recommend the Holy Diver bridge for this guitar - firstly because it suits it very welk, secondly because it will cover the musical bases you want very well.

For the single coil, I would highly recommend Trilogies above all others.
The Slowhands I have aren't quite powerful enough to balance with the HD bridge - even if you raise them very close to the strings.  Having said that, the base-plated Slowhand neck in my Feline is much better.
I find the Irish Tours a little bright for my taste (I have the HD/IT HSS set in my korina strat but the warmth of the korina body offsets some of that "pop" they have).
I'm sorely tempted to replace my Slowhands with Sultans' (which work well with a NB bridge in my alder strat, perhaps I'd get plated ones for this guitar)
But I have a single Trilogy neck with an HD bridge in my Charvel 550XL (same woods/construction/bridge as the SL3) & it's a GREAT combination.  The Trilogy is by far the best match for the HD IMHO - powerful enough to balance, thick/bassy enough to "fit" with the HD's fat mids, but still sounds like a single coil.

[Doadman]

Hmmmmm, certainly food for thought here.

As I said, my first thought was to simply go with what Tim suggested but in a way, the Miracle Man concerns me. It has the power I need without a doubt and is certainly articulate enough but the clips are very tight when recorded with a mahogany guitar so it may be too harsh when paired with Alder and Maple. The lack of a bit of variety I could cope with as 99% of the times it's going to be using a lot of distortion.

I think that if I have a concern about the Holy Diver it's because I have only ever really had ceramic pups before so I know they provide the cut and articulation I want. An Alnico V pup is more of a step into the dark for me. I had a Super Distortion in a Strat once and that was a great pickup and so was the Cold Sweat I had in my last guitar. Both pickups may have been ceramic but I loved the fact that they retained quite a rich and organic tone as well as having that cutting edge. I guess what I want is something like that but with a bit more power as well for the extra gain I can use these days. I know the Alnico V should have the quality of tone but I've never really associated them with the other qualities I'm looking for, though I'm happy to accept that I might be wrong. I'm hardly an authority! I know Antag has ample experience so if he's sure the Holy Diver will cut it, then I may well go that direction. Is the Holy Diver a bit like a Tone Zone as whenever I look at DiMarzio pups, I tend to be drawn to that, despite it being Alnico V?

If a ceramic would be better, the Painkiller seems like it offers the best compromise but as nobody else has picked up on that I may well be wrong. I'd be interested in not only hearing what you think would be best, but more importantly, why you think it would be best.


It may be worth pointing out that while a play a 'Metal' guitar, I am by no means a shredder. If anything, my style leans more towards Dave Gilmour or maybe somewhere between him and Adrian Smith. I use an SL3 because I like locking trems and thru-necks - no other reasons. It's just that those specs tend to crop up in Metal guitars :)

[Zaned]

I saw your comments on the other thread too..so a few points.

1. You're considering CS, and I can't see it being LESS cutting than the Miracle man.

2. If I've undersood correctly, the SL3 is a maple neck-through, and the neck wood tends to dominate tonewise on neck-throughs. MM works great in maple!

3. You're comparing the Miracle man to the EMG81, although the Painkiller is actually closer to that  :)

4. CS would be powerful enough for the trilogy suites, no problem there..tonewise, I'm not sure. Trilogy suites aren't really cutting, (at least neck), and the CS is. Very.

-Zaned

[Doadman]

Ah, thanks. You live and learn  :D

For some reason I'd always thought of the MM as a passive version of an EMG81 but I confess I have no idea why. Clearly I've been concentrating too much on the Alder body of the guitar rather than the Maple neck, in which case, it may well be that Tim was right all along. I mentioned the 'Cold Sweat' because in my last guitar Tim told me that the wire used on the CS was different to the MM and gave it a more organic tone and as I LOVE John Syke's tone on that song it seemed a no brainer. What I'm after I suppose is an improved Super Distortion and I'd assumed that would be either the CS or PK but perhaps I'm wrong and it's the MM all along. So far, for the neck and middle, everyone has suggested Trilogy Suites so I'm inclined to believe that's right. They need to be more versatile than the bridge pup and give a lead tone like Dave Murray but even better than the Hot Rails I have now. I'm thinking I might keep the Seymour Duncans and try popping them into a Yamaha Pacifica as a backup guitar.

[Zaned]

Considering that the song which the Miracle Man pickup was named after, was recorded with a EMG81 equipped guitar, the assumption is very easy to make :)

I don't own the MM however! But I do own the CS. But based on the clips, if your guitar is tight and middy (as maple tends to be), the MM should be a good choise. Naturally, if you have further doubts, discuss more with Tim.

The Holy diver was also suggested, although I personally probably wouldn't use it with a guitar where maple dominates. Gongested mids. I have that pickup in an alder-bodied maple-topped superstrat, where it works GREAT.

-Zaned