Username: Password:

Author Topic: Trouble with Apaches??  (Read 2035 times)

Hyfive578

  • Strawweight
  • *
  • Posts: 4
Trouble with Apaches??
« on: October 23, 2011, 06:25:36 PM »
Hi all... I'm new to the forum, but not new to BKP's.. I have about 20+ sets of them, mostly Mules, a few Rebel Yells, a few Black Dogs...  I just recently put a set of Apaches in an American Standard Strat.. Ash Body, Maple Neck and was not loving them at all...  I found them to be a bit thin and when put into overdrive, fairly gritty.  I'm pretty experienced with installing pickups, so I don't think its the installation, but anything is possible.  I've already pulled them out, but I am willing to give them another go because I'm such a huge BKP fan that I want to love them... Does anybody have any ideas??   Anyone have the optimum height for each position...

thanks, Neil

BigB

  • Welterweight
  • ****
  • Posts: 1429
  • Let's rock !
Re: Trouble with Apaches??
« Reply #1 on: October 23, 2011, 07:38:10 PM »
I've already pulled them out, but I am willing to give them another go because I'm such a huge BKP fan that I want to love them...

Hi Neil

Sorry, no specifif advice wrt/ Apaches, just a couple thought... Not all pups will work fine for a given guitar (I mean, not all strat pups will work fine in each and every strat), and being a BKP fan doesn't mean you should try and force yourself into loving pups that don't work for you and your guitar. Sometimes it's ok BUT not what you were looking for, and sometimes it just don't work, period. If you bought your pups directly from BKP (I hope you did), then you just have to contact the team and send your pups back for a swap or refund.

My 2 cents...
Have: Crawlers, BGF 50/52s, Mules, ABomb, RiffRaff
Had : Slowhands (n&m), Trilogy (b)

Hyfive578

  • Strawweight
  • *
  • Posts: 4
Re: Trouble with Apaches??
« Reply #2 on: October 23, 2011, 08:08:33 PM »
If you bought your pups directly from BKP (I hope you did), then you just have to contact the team and send your pups back for a swap or refund.

My 2 cents...
Thanks BigB... Yes, I did buy them directly from BKP.  And I had no idea I could return them... Never had to before... That's probably the route I will take..  I have a feeling those pups just don't match well with this specific guitar.  It's bright to begin with and the apaches just make it more so... just not a good fit I think...

Telerocker

  • Middleweight
  • *****
  • Posts: 7433
Re: Trouble with Apaches??
« Reply #3 on: October 23, 2011, 08:43:28 PM »
Welcome here Neil.

That's a bit of surprise, cause Apaches should produce a big fat fifties-strattone. Scatterwound pickups are heigth-sensitive, so maybe you can experiment a bit more. What about pots/wiring. I guess you done al right, just thinking about all possibilities. Maybe you can contact the BKP-team for some help.

(Btw, I have a VHII/Mother's Milk-set in ash American Series Fender strat and it works well).
Mules, VHII, Crawler, MM's, IT's, BG50's.

AndyR

  • Welterweight
  • ****
  • Posts: 4715
  • Where's all the top end gone?
    • My Offerings
Re: Trouble with Apaches??
« Reply #4 on: October 24, 2011, 09:03:35 AM »
Yeah, welcome Neil :D

I'm quite surprised as well - the Apaches are the "fattest" ones I've come across when compared to other strat pups. I've got Irish Tours, Sultans, and Apaches. The differences when putting them in the same guitar are noticable but not huge. The Apaches definitely feel rounder, smoother, and possibly more "meaty", to me than the other two do.

Comparing any of them to my other guitars, though (Riff Raff, Mule, MQ, even Blackguards to some extent), all strat single coil pups I've tried sound a bit thin and possibly overly gritty when overdriven - I adjust the amp if I want a strat kicking out the same sort of tone as the humbucker guitar I was just playing. BUT(!) I suspect you already know this anyway :D

One thing I have found out with the Apaches, and this is just experience of two guitars, they do seem to pretty much amplify the tone of the guitar itself. The job they did in the first guitar, while similar, is not exactly what they do in the second. Personally, I've found this more noticable with Apaches. So it could be it's just not a good match in your guitar.

Height-wise, mine are set roughly 2-3 mm from the high E when fretted at the last fret (bass side slightly lower). I have tried them lower than that and, like any pickup I've tried, they thin out a bit then (or get clearer, depending on what you're after!).

I've got a feeling I'd contact BKP over this one. I've read about all sorts of reasons for people not getting on with a specific pickup in a specific guitar, but I don't ever recall reading about Apaches being "too thin for me" in comparison to other strat singles.

Good luck :D
Play or Download AndyR Music at http://www.alonetone.com/andyr

BigB

  • Welterweight
  • ****
  • Posts: 1429
  • Let's rock !
Re: Trouble with Apaches??
« Reply #5 on: October 24, 2011, 11:26:40 AM »
Thanks BigB... Yes, I did buy them directly from BKP.  And I had no idea I could return them...

http://www.bareknucklepickups.co.uk/shop/index.php?main_page=shippinginfo
Have: Crawlers, BGF 50/52s, Mules, ABomb, RiffRaff
Had : Slowhands (n&m), Trilogy (b)

Hyfive578

  • Strawweight
  • *
  • Posts: 4
Re: Trouble with Apaches??
« Reply #6 on: October 24, 2011, 02:57:53 PM »
Thanks a lot for the info guys...  I think I'm gonna give them another try...  Now, when I think about it, I was getting a lot more noise than I had expected (even from single coils), so maybe something was grounding out, although I'm 99.9% sure my connections were pretty good..  ie: the Apaches were a lot noisier than the stock Fender Am Strat Pickups... is that to be expected with Apaches??   

The other part of the problem is me comparing them to my other guitars... I'm primarily a Les Paul guy and the two other Strats I own, one is a Custom Shop Clapton with the mid-boost kit and the other is an Eric Johnson... both of those guitars are much fatter than the American std... So, I'm gonna try them one more time and play with the height and see what happens..  I will report back.... thanks again!!

steve

  • Lightweight
  • ***
  • Posts: 798
    • http://www.cdbaby.com/stevegladman
Re: Trouble with Apaches??
« Reply #7 on: October 24, 2011, 03:28:25 PM »
I had mine set up to high. I lowered the bass side to 3.5 m away and the treble side to 2.5 (away from the strings,fretted at the last fret) and it came alive with a superb strat tone. Very versatile pickup (now i set it right).
Mule,Trilogy,Irish Tours,Holy Diver and Apaches.

gwEm

  • Middleweight
  • *****
  • Posts: 7456
    • http://www.preromanbritain.com/gwem
Re: Trouble with Apaches??
« Reply #8 on: October 24, 2011, 04:28:15 PM »
what type of amp are you using?
Quote from: AndyR
you wouldn't use the meat knife on crusty bread but, equally, the serrated knife and straight edge knife aren't going to go through raw meat as quickly

Hyfive578

  • Strawweight
  • *
  • Posts: 4
Re: Trouble with Apaches??
« Reply #9 on: October 24, 2011, 07:01:29 PM »
GREAT NEWS!!!    So, it appears that I must have messed something up when I installed them the first time, because on the second go round, they sounded ENTIRELY different.  I was a lot more careful with routing the wires in the cavity this time and my connections to eliminate those issues and it appears that was likely the problem the first time..  I also took Steve's advice on the height.  Something was definitely wrong the first time, because these Apaches sound GREAT!!!  Nice, full rounded tones but with a nice chime in bridge and position 2...  thanks for all of the tips .. I'm glad I gave them another shot..

Andrew W

  • Welterweight
  • ****
  • Posts: 1350
    • http://www.andrew-whitehurst.net
Re: Trouble with Apaches??
« Reply #10 on: October 24, 2011, 07:46:18 PM »
Phew, we do like a happy punter.

One thing I'd say as a fellow Apache owner is that it's really worth playing with the pickup heights, there's a lot of tonal variation and with some messing about you'll really be able to dial in something that feels totally right to you. Love Apaches, probably my favourite Strat pickup, especially in a maple boarded Strat.

AndyR

  • Welterweight
  • ****
  • Posts: 4715
  • Where's all the top end gone?
    • My Offerings
Re: Trouble with Apaches??
« Reply #11 on: October 24, 2011, 07:50:14 PM »
Nice one :D

Glad it worked out.
Play or Download AndyR Music at http://www.alonetone.com/andyr

Telerocker

  • Middleweight
  • *****
  • Posts: 7433
Re: Trouble with Apaches??
« Reply #12 on: October 25, 2011, 12:48:18 AM »
Glad you found the problem  :) ! It surprised me bec my Irish Tours and Mother's Milk are not very noisy.
Mules, VHII, Crawler, MM's, IT's, BG50's.