Help? C-Bomb for no-djenty rock/hardrock/metal sound (alder/maple)

[Cboysen]

So I took some more time listening to the various clips.. 

And well.. Tbh, I don't like the Nailbomb clips at all.. they got a certain edge/scratchy sound,  that I find unpleasant.. is that just me?

Right now it's a run between the MM and the Holy Diver.. the Holy diver being the lower output pickup, not as defined, not as hot, not that much high compared to the MM.. but I really like it on the Hairy Metal clips.. too bad there are no such clips featuring the MMs.. 

lows, mids, highs, are all something you EQ to pref. but I fear that upping the highs on a recording with Holy divers, will just make it sound fizzy rather than more sparkly.. Also for Metalcore/hardrock and huge breakdowns the MM might do a better job - Although the HD is listed as an Hard rock pickup.. 

So now the question is
Whats the better pickup regarding
1) Cleans
2) Coilsplit
3) Volume/gain-control
4) Suited for Maple Neckthrough / Alder wings

[Alex]

Referring back to the bands you quoted I'd say Miracle Man.

[Cboysen]

Yeah - I came to that conclusion as well, after all this topic-talking.. it's a great help really!!

Now still, I'm going to split the MM, no matter how good it'll sound, unless it's gonna compromise anything?

What neck pickup suits the MM the best - Holy diver maybe? .. THE MQ was mentioned earlier too, trying to nail something like a synyster Gates-kinda tone?

[Slartibartfarst42]

I know I'm biased as I went for the Holydiver but I'll do my best to be objective.

The Miracle Man is the usual suggestion for our type of guitar because maple neck-thru guitars tend to be quite middy so the mid scoop that is characteristic of that pickup fits it well. It will also have the tighter bass response with its ceramic magnet and in many ways may remind you of an active EMG, as you may guess from its name. It is certainly a Metal pickup and I've read many comments that it can be a bit of a one-trick pony. When I played it some years ago now I really liked it but the sound just wasn't thick and warm enough for my tastes. It does have a lot of highs which may well make it more 'defined' but it will also therefore give a tighter, thinner and colder sound. This is all relative of course.

The Holydiver is quite different in that it is thick, warm and fluid but like all Bare Knuckle pickups, it doesn't do 'mush' at all. Sure, it's not as tight as the Miracle Man but compared to something like a Seymour Duncan JB, it's super articulate and defined. I know because it was a JB that came out of my Jackson to make way for the Holydiver. Please don't do what I did and confuse 'tight' with 'articulate'. While the EQ of the Holydiver suggests it's all mids, I think that's a bit misleading. I did another review of the Holydiver that you can find here if you're interested:

https://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=24376.0

I've never found it to be fizzy and I primarily play lead so I need solos to cut through well. If you want it even tighter and more articulate than I have it, just get it open poled instead of covered. I certainly wouldn't say it's not a hot pickup. DC resistance doesn't tell the whole story and I'd say the Holydiver isn't too different from the Nailbomb and while I think the Miracle Man is more powerful, I don't think there's as much in it as you might think. As for your specific questions, the cleans on the Holydiver will be better, both will coil split perfectly well, both should respond to the volume control well and both will work well in your guitar.

[Cboysen]

So I finally spent a good while comparing clips of the MM and the Holy Diver.. I don't think I've gotten that much closer to a decision, since to be honest.. I don't really like many, if any of the clips people have posted of them throughout.. maybe a very few.. But that might be because of the amp choice. Usually some ampsim or podXT...

My personal sound-experience with the BKP modern metal clips were quite similar to the DC resistance charts..
The MM being the less mid-middy but way more low-middy and oomph-y in the palm-muted stuff, where the HD sounded horn-like in comparison, and overall less aggressive..

Although on the lead stuff, the MM seemed to have a certain spike at something around 300-400hz making it sound like a whining cat, where the Holy Diver had an overall more beautiful tone.. but I guess that doesn't matter much since that's neck-pickup stuff, and I'm going for a CS in the neck anyway...

I've read that the MM has a very characteristic pickbuzz - What does that mean?
Whenever I hear buzz as a quality, it doesn't seem like a good thing..

I'm kinda circling right now .. but I think I should go with the MM/CS combo, and then I can always EQ to taste with all the billion of adjustables I got down the road.. 
That is based on
1) The dynamics are a bit more compressed in the MM, which might be a good thing for metal stuff anyway
2) It seems more powerful/aggressive which suites the style
3) the HD being a quite middy pickup in an maple neckthrough guitar might not be the best idea for this kinda of stuff (Also again, that is something that can be dialed out I guess.. )
4) Palm-muted riffs seems larger and more oomph-y on the MM, than the HD
5) Cutting through won't have the biggest impact, since it's still just an EQ thing..
6) Going from an EMG81 to a much lower output pick up might be weird? - Playability-wise I might have an easier time getting used to the MM..

Only thing that worries me is the fact that BKP says the MM has an  "... accented hi-end with a thoroughly percussive feel" .. Percussive feel? What does that even mean.. is it kick-drum percussion or Marimba-percussion? .. I'm really lost about that bit?

[Cboysen]

And then I found a few posts saying they found their MMs too bright in their Jackson RR1s and RR3s.. and recommending a C-bomb instead..

Man.. If I have to take every contradicting post into account, I'll never get this done.. the curse of the forums..

[darkbluemurder]

That is because everybody hears things differently and sometimes uses different catch words to describe tones. The only thing to do to get more clarification is to be as specific as possible in the description of tone.

Ultimately you will only know how a pickup sounds after you put it in your guitar and played it through your rig at home AND in a band setting (if you play in a band).

Your comparison between the Miracle Man and the Holydiver matches my actual experience with them in an alder bodied strat with a maple neck w/ rosewood board. I think the Miracle Man would be the better choice for your situation.

Cheers Stephan

[Cboysen]

Oh thanks!

Yeah I believe the MM is the right choice for me, but all this second-guessing is killing me..

People tend to say that the MM is an upgrade from the EMG85 and the HD being and upgrade from the JB
Having only played the EMG81 bridge and EMG85 neck, and a Seymour Duncan Invader, in that regard, it doesn't give me much to go on .. On the other hand though - KSE and BFMV uses a JB, and got a certain warmth to the tone, that's very pleasant.  Is that just an EQ thing?

Again, will the MM have a nasty pick-attack buzz/scratchy sound? As I stated earlier, I rather see a more rounded pick attack with a lot of oomph to it

I guess the tone that's closest to what I hear (and then again not really.. ) is this BFMV's Hand of Blood album.. something like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJ0X7d7aWjY

I like the pick-attack and low-rumble feel they got, and the leads are alright too.. could use a bit more clarity, in general it's a bit too comressed and mushed and well.. It's better than anything else I can find around.. Rise Against actually coming up on a close second, tone wise..

Now if BFMV uses a JB, and the HD resembles a JB somewhat in characteristics - Will the MM still be the better choice for my guitar, considering wood and aggressiveness and what not?

[Attica!]

Oh thanks!

Yeah I believe the MM is the right choice for me, but all this second-guessing is killing me..

People tend to say that the MM is an upgrade from the EMG85 and the HD being and upgrade from the JB
Having only played the EMG81 bridge and EMG85 neck, and a Seymour Duncan Invader, in that regard, it doesn't give me much to go on .. On the other hand though - KSE and BFMV uses a JB, and got a certain warmth to the tone, that's very pleasant.  Is that just an EQ thing?

Again, will the MM have a nasty pick-attack buzz/scratchy sound? As I stated earlier, I rather see a more rounded pick attack with a lot of oomph to it

I guess the tone that's closest to what I hear (and then again not really.. ) is this BFMV's Hand of Blood album.. something like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJ0X7d7aWjY

I like the pick-attack and low-rumble feel they got, and the leads are alright too.. could use a bit more clarity, in general it's a bit too comressed and mushed and well.. It's better than anything else I can find around.. Rise Against actually coming up on a close second, tone wise..

Now if BFMV uses a JB, and the HD resembles a JB somewhat in characteristics - Will the MM still be the better choice for my guitar, considering wood and aggressiveness and what not?

BFMV actually use EMGs on 90% of their recordings. I know Matt Tuck used to play live with Jackson guitars which used to have stock JB/Jazz, but in the studio, a lot was actually recorded on Les Pauls/etc. with EMGs, with the occasional JB stocked Jackson RR. I remember I wanted that Bullet tone and was shocked when I read the interview about his equipment. I have a Holy Diver in  Maple Neck-Thru, and it does that fat, melodic bullet tone extremely well mind. I actually prefer it to my EMG for that music as that style usually contains a lot of leads and harmonised riffs. Check out a band called "If Destiny Remains", there's a guy on this forum, in that band, who uses the Holy Diver and ,he loves it :)

[Cboysen]

Hmm .. I'm starting to see the traits of the HD, and I think it's quite a bit of compromise..

MM wins on rhythm
HD wins on leads.. 

that band does have a little bit of 80's vibe in their tone, and the fast 'blast'-picking, seems to get a tad blurry at times..
Also I see how it relates to some great BFMV riffing.. but the stuff I do (or try to..) is a little different.
I really love their tone when they sing the clean vocals, just a great wall-of-sound kinda tone, but I think I might be able to achieve similar qualities on a MM, or am I wrong?

Either way -  I think I'll go for the MM, but mail the BKP team too, just to see their opinion once more.. It is after all about a year since I mailed them last time. (yeah I'm no impulse guy..)