Contemporary BKP output-levels?

[Contrition.Josh]

i have a basic understanding of which Bare Knuckle Pickups that have the highest output, (Warpigs, Miracle Men) but where does the blackhawk rest in that order? is it all the way up there, or is it similar to Aftermaths? could someone maybe put them in order? And i'm not talking about DC-resistance, because then Blackhawks would be way down, and that is not the case, as far as i've heard.

Also, i'm currently using a calibrated set of aftermath pickups, which i love.. but would the blackhawk be recommended for a more organic tone, but in the same kind of output-range?

[ericsabbath]

in my experience, the BKPs with actual highest output levels are the aftermath and painkiller
then the nailbomb and miracle man
then the alnico warpig and cold sweat
then holy diver
didn't try the ceramic versions of the warpig and nailbomb, though

just to be clear, I'm talking output and loudness, not compression/saturation

I wouldn't be surprised if the blackhawk had more output than a warpig
just installed a 70's dimarzio k10 (original super 2) in my friends flying v, paired with a bridge warpig (23k, alnico version)
the k10 is about 8.9k, quite strong ceramic magnet and supposedly has a 400mV output
to balance volume, I had to get the warpig very close to the strings (whole pickup is above the pickguard level) and the dimarzio set very low, only a couple milimeters above the pickguard
they paired quite well, but the dimarzio still overpowers it a little
I was actually quite impressed with this dimarzio
really nice sustain and clarity, fat but not nasal mids (which is surprising coming from dimarzio)
I wonder if the blackhawk is anything like that, being ceramic and under 10k
also makes me wonder what a ceramic black dog would sound like... (oh, shut your brain off, now! :()

[BigB]

in my experience, the BKPs with actual highest output levels are the aftermath and painkiller
then the nailbomb and miracle man
then the alnico warpig and cold sweat

Uhu ? I would have expected the Warpig to be higher output than the Nailbomb (and I'm not talking about compression or fatness neither, really strictly output level - voltage, that is).

[Contrition.Josh]

Haha thanks for your reply! damn confused now though..  Just thinking about finding something in between an Aftermath(clarity, low noise/no feedbacking) and a Miracle man (girth and full-ness), but without too much output..  (i have a feedback issues with my miracle man, and far less with my Aftermath...) so i figured that a Blackhawk might be nicely in the middle?

[darkbluemurder]

in my experience, the BKPs with actual highest output levels are the aftermath and painkiller
then the nailbomb and miracle man
then the alnico warpig and cold sweat
then holy diver
didn't try the ceramic versions of the warpig and nailbomb, though

just to be clear, I'm talking output and loudness, not compression/saturation

I had the Miracle Man and the Holydiver in the same guitar and can confirm that the Miracle Man has more output.

I also had the Miracle Man and the Cold Sweat in the same (but a different) guitar and can again confirm that the Miracle Man has more output.

I also had the Alnico Nailbomb and the Holydiver in the same (but a different) guitar and found them rather equal in output.

So it seems like if you wanted to go louder than Miracle Man you would need a Painkiller or an Aftermath. I am indeed a bit surprised not to find the Warpig up there.

Cheers Stephan

[ericsabbath]

in my experience, the BKPs with actual highest output levels are the aftermath and painkiller
then the nailbomb and miracle man
then the alnico warpig and cold sweat
then holy diver
didn't try the ceramic versions of the warpig and nailbomb, though

just to be clear, I'm talking output and loudness, not compression/saturation

I had the Miracle Man and the Holydiver in the same guitar and can confirm that the Miracle Man has more output.

I also had the Miracle Man and the Cold Sweat in the same (but a different) guitar and can again confirm that the Miracle Man has more output.

I also had the Alnico Nailbomb and the Holydiver in the same (but a different) guitar and found them rather equal in output.

So it seems like if you wanted to go louder than Miracle Man you would need a Painkiller or an Aftermath. I am indeed a bit surprised not to find the Warpig up there.

Cheers Stephan

the nailbomb was definitely louder hotter than the diver in my lp custom, even getting it lower
didn't have the warpig in the same guitars, though, but in the two guitars I had it, it wasn't uber high output at all and definitely less hot than the painkiller in one of those

but it's funny how some guitars can make a pickup react in  many different ways
the diver sounded very polite in my les paul copy and very aggressive in my lp custom (still not in a nailbomb level)
the mule in this same les paul copy sounds cleaner than the miracle man in the same guitar, but the exact same miracle man (that I sold to my bandmate) sounds cleaner in my bandmates prs mccarty than the mule in my les paul

we're recording a new EP, and it's mostly his mccarty with the miracle man in the bridge and my '73 lp custom with the custom riff raff and a mule in the neck (I'll probably use some more mules and the black dog here and there)
the clean and crunch tones he's getting with the prs + miracle man are  REALLY GOOD, mostly better than mine with lower output models (I'm going for a more grungy tone, a la Soundgarden, while he sounds more "Alter Bridgy")
we're using the Juansolo Baby Boobtube as a clean boost in most of the driven stuff, by the way  :D
that thing really expands the guitars frequencies and adds a nice clean boost in front of the amps without sounding hard like regular solid state clean boosters
I'll post the songs in a couple months, maybe some guitar-only tracks

back to the subject, it's hard to know what to expect from a pickup before trying it in the particular guitar
the diver sounded a lot different and much hotter in my custom than it did in my jap copy
the cold sweat wasn't much different, for example
big massive and resonant guitars tend to put some extra output signal, and depending on which frequencies they resonate, and which frequencies the pickup picks better, the actual gain and our perception of it might change a lot

[darkbluemurder]

back to the subject, it's hard to know what to expect from a pickup before trying it in the particular guitar
the diver sounded a lot different and much hotter in my custom than it did in my jap copy
the cold sweat wasn't much different, for example
big massive and resonant guitars tend to put some extra output signal, and depending on which frequencies they resonate, and which frequencies the pickup picks better, the actual gain and our perception of it might change a lot

That is exactly my observation as well. Matching pickups to guitar (and other equipment) is key. E.g. the Crawler sounded very dark and slightly mushy in the low end in my swamp ash guitar while it sounds quite bright and snappy in the guitar it is now. As regards HD vs. A-NB I thought that that particular guitar did not emphasise some of the frequencies which the A-NB picks up most.

Cheers Stephan 

[photone]

big massive and resonant guitars tend to put some extra output signal, and depending on which frequencies they resonate, and which frequencies the pickup picks better, the actual gain and our perception of it might change a lot

... and how can be determinated on wich frequencies resonate a guitar ?

[darkbluemurder]

Experienced ears claim to hear it when playing the guitar unamplified. While I can hear the differences sometimes I do not fully rely on my perception of the unamplified guitar tone - I have been mistaken a few times. Especially I find it difficult to do this on an isolatedd basis rather than an A/B test scenario. 

Cheers Stephan

[Philly Q]

back to the subject, it's hard to know what to expect from a pickup before trying it in the particular guitar
the diver sounded a lot different and much hotter in my custom than it did in my jap copy
the cold sweat wasn't much different, for example
big massive and resonant guitars tend to put some extra output signal, and depending on which frequencies they resonate, and which frequencies the pickup picks better, the actual gain and our perception of it might change a lot

That is exactly my observation as well. Matching pickups to guitar (and other equipment) is key. E.g. the Crawler sounded very dark and slightly mushy in the low end in my swamp ash guitar while it sounds quite bright and snappy in the guitar it is now. As regards HD vs. A-NB I thought that that particular guitar did not emphasise some of the frequencies which the A-NB picks up most.

I have a Washburn guitar with a swamp ash body and (glued-in) maple neck.  Acoustically, it has a bassy, woolly sort of tone which sounds quite odd compared with my mahogany guitars.  I always thought of swamp ash/maple as a bright combination, but maybe it's the set-neck construction....

The bridge pickup is (I think) a Duncan Custom Custom which isn't a very good match at all.  I can imagine a Crawler not working either.  You're right that pickups really do sound very different in different guitars.

[Telerocker]

My swampash strat is not very bright too. I has a nice midrange and non-shrill topend. Crawler fits perfectly in this one. The Crawler makes it beefy in the midrange, but there's plenty of snap left in the upper register. The neck-IT kills in this one. Bold tones on Orange Rockerverb 50/cab)