To Kemper or not to Kemper?

[CommonCourtesy]

I've usually been a natural tube amp and cabinet lover, but recently my head's been turned by the ongoing raves about Axe FX's and Kemper amp profilers. The appeal is strong - amp modelling on your favourite amp, easier to transport (no more lifting cabs), consistent tone (less fiddling with eq settings), no tubes dying on gig nights, and when done with a natural amp shootout not a lot of people can tell the difference.

These things are going for £1200 approx I think, but with an amp head and a cab it'd probably cost the same if not more, my dream half stack set up is a 6505+ head with a Mesa 4 x 12, both of these can cost a grand alone each.

Who's got an Axe FX or indeed a Kemper? And how does it work for what you want to do?

[Alex]

Out of curiosity, are you in this band (A Day to Remember)? Their music isn't bad.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W2Hh5y7yY3c

[CommonCourtesy]

Lol I wish I was!

They're one of my favourite bands though and if you want a guitar tone reference I'd like to achieve that's the album to refer to!

[Telerocker]

No user, but a friend of me has one. Pro: lots of profiles avaible and tweakability. Con: on stage not quite the tubefeeling as claimed by Kemper. Close though. Also, a little lack of substance in the lowend.

[EchelonXIII]

No user, but a friend of me has one. Pro: lots of profiles avaible and tweakability. Con: on stage not quite the tubefeeling as claimed by Kemper. Close though. Also, a little lack of substance in the lowend.

Kemper user here,
I have not experienced any problems in lack of natural overtones, or the lack of a low-end. This could be caused by the use of either bad monitors, or the use of a somewhat profile. I use Yamaha HS8'S, and they pretty much are industry standard all-around for their extremely flat EQ range. (Why people still are using Rokits is quite beyond me).  What is very important with the use of a Kemper, is the quality of a used profile. If one buys profiles from a genuine studio, you get stellar tones that hold up against the real thing for 98% of the real cranked tone. And the other 2% one would experience from the resonating sounds from the cab itself...once again, that can be solved by getting good monitors, and giving those a good crank :-)

All in all a Kemper is a great and logical sollution for me, because I can't use a tube amp where I live... and if you get a powered one you probably won't buy another amp again for at least the next decade

[bucketshred]

I've usually been a natural tube amp and cabinet lover, but recently my head's been turned by the ongoing raves about Axe FX's and Kemper amp profilers. The appeal is strong - amp modelling on your favourite amp, easier to transport (no more lifting cabs), consistent tone (less fiddling with eq settings), no tubes dying on gig nights, and when done with a natural amp shootout not a lot of people can tell the difference.

These things are going for £1200 approx I think, but with an amp head and a cab it'd probably cost the same if not more, my dream half stack set up is a 6505+ head with a Mesa 4 x 12, both of these can cost a grand alone each.

Who's got an Axe FX or indeed a Kemper? And how does it work for what you want to do?

6505+: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Peavey-6505-Plus-With-3-Button-Footswitch-/321757374822?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item4aea3be966

Mesa 4x12: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Mesa-Boogie-Rectifier-4x12-guitar-cab-/251963258884?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item3aaa2e3804

BOOM! Probably manage to get the two for about a grand each. No point buying brand new these days (unless you're buying on finance). Also, how do you KNOW this head/cab is your dream? Have you played them both together?

I have heard a lot of people RAVE about Kemper's for recording use but for ACTUAL PROPER LIVE they have all said that the Kemper doesn't quite hold up to a valve amp.

Paddy

[CommonCourtesy]

I've usually been a natural tube amp and cabinet lover, but recently my head's been turned by the ongoing raves about Axe FX's and Kemper amp profilers. The appeal is strong - amp modelling on your favourite amp, easier to transport (no more lifting cabs), consistent tone (less fiddling with eq settings), no tubes dying on gig nights, and when done with a natural amp shootout not a lot of people can tell the difference.

These things are going for £1200 approx I think, but with an amp head and a cab it'd probably cost the same if not more, my dream half stack set up is a 6505+ head with a Mesa 4 x 12, both of these can cost a grand alone each.

Who's got an Axe FX or indeed a Kemper? And how does it work for what you want to do?

6505+: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Peavey-6505-Plus-With-3-Button-Footswitch-/321757374822?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item4aea3be966

Mesa 4x12: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Mesa-Boogie-Rectifier-4x12-guitar-cab-/251963258884?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item3aaa2e3804

BOOM! Probably manage to get the two for about a grand each. No point buying brand new these days (unless you're buying on finance). Also, how do you KNOW this head/cab is your dream? Have you played them both together?

I have heard a lot of people RAVE about Kemper's for recording use but for ACTUAL PROPER LIVE they have all said that the Kemper doesn't quite hold up to a valve amp.

Paddy

I've already got a 6505+ head and alot of my favourite bands use that combination with the Mesa cab. I have a Marshall 4 x 12 with 2 new Vintage 30's and 2 stock G12T-75's in it, it sounds good but could sound better. Also there's 2 types of mesa cab, the traditional and oversized one.

People use their amp heads as a pre-amp still don't they? I've seen it before though not in the know-how with how it all works.

[ericsabbath]

I only played a kemper once at relatively low volumes
I remember most of my favorite profiles were plexi based (regular 1959, van halen plexi and yngwie's plexi)
those sounded pretty good and authentic enough
also liked the bogner uberschall profile
not sure how it would behave at a band situation, though
I have the impression they sound like really well recorded real amps, which might not represent what a real amp sounds like with all it's imperfections

if I was a producer or into having lots of different sounds, I'd have one, but I'm more of a one sound guy, and I can get my thing from a single channel marshall-type medium gain tube amp, so the kemper doesn't have the magical appeal to me, although I was really impressed with the sound, and, as a programmer, I admire the whole process around it

[richard]

The strange thing I think about the Kemper is that it's already 'defeated' it's original purpose. An amp that will profile almost perfectly any of the all time great amps. Who of us has access to the great amps ? Who can lay their hands on a vintage Marshall, Fender, Vox, Dumble, Mk1 Boogie etc etc ?

BUT - someone else can and has. And they'll sell you the profiles. So you might as well buy a Kemper that doesn't have the modelling facilities and load it with other people's profiles.  So then it becomes a 'normal' modelling amp ? I'm confused.
 

[Alex]

Guys, you're doing my head in. 
It's as if there is the golden rule here that the formula big amp head plus a quality 4x12" cab is the pinnacle of tone and feel.

Playing live that's simply not true! Let's try to find a board member here who has actually cranked an amp over a 4x12" in a live situation! We might find one, maybe two... The truth is that there is simply no place for 4x12" cabs on today's stages anymore, they are highly deficient in terms of volume, signal bleed and use of space.

The bleed from the speakers, the big variances in micing the cab in different venues, the resonance of the stage floor and the room... it all makes for highly unreliable live situations and, usually, the player doesn't get the sound he/she loves from playing at home or from - tadaah! - the records he/she loves! I've been to far too many semi-pro/amateur concerts with too loud/overgained amplifiers on stage resulting in a horrible sound for the audience and/or inaudible guitars.

I see a couple of future solutions for guitarists:
- a AXE FX or Kemper straight into the PA
- a small amp with a 1x12" cab/speaker, close miced into the PA
- an amp via a load box straight into the PA

It's no wonder more and more pros are switching over to AXEs and Kempers.

[CommonCourtesy]

Well if another solution is an amp via a load box straight into the PA would a DI box be another viable option? And a lot cheaper too. (I think these boxes cost about £150 approx).

Still got the hassle of carrying a 4 x 12 cabinet though.

[Telerocker]

http://www.tech21nyc.com/products/sansamp/rk5.html can go straight into the console thanks to on board speakercabemulation.
Talking about lightweight...

[Dave Sloven]

Have you tried an Orange PPC412 cab?  I imagine they are readily available in the UK.  Four V30s and heavy construction.

I have one and it is absolutely killer with my Peavey.  When we play with other bands the guitarists are generally mad keen to borrow my cab for their set.

They weigh a ton though so you'll need one of those other guitarists or one of those useless vocalist blokes to help you carry it.

I don't let anyone borrow my amp head though ... seen too many drinks get spilled into them at shows and if it belongs to someone else it's always just the 'sorry man', which doesn't pay to get it fixed.  People can hire amps or bring their own!

[James C]

Guys, you're doing my head in. 
It's as if there is the golden rule here that the formula big amp head plus a quality 4x12" cab is the pinnacle of tone and feel.

Playing live that's simply not true! Let's try to find a board member here who has actually cranked an amp over a 4x12" in a live situation! We might find one, maybe two... The truth is that there is simply no place for 4x12" cabs on today's stages anymore, they are highly deficient in terms of volume, signal bleed and use of space.

The bleed from the speakers, the big variances in micing the cab in different venues, the resonance of the stage floor and the room... it all makes for highly unreliable live situations and, usually, the player doesn't get the sound he/she loves from playing at home or from - tadaah! - the records he/she loves! I've been to far too many semi-pro/amateur concerts with too loud/overgained amplifiers on stage resulting in a horrible sound for the audience and/or inaudible guitars.

I see a couple of future solutions for guitarists:
- a AXE FX or Kemper straight into the PA
- a small amp with a 1x12" cab/speaker, close miced into the PA
- an amp via a load box straight into the PA

It's no wonder more and more pros are switching over to AXEs and Kempers.

I've only played the Kemper through monitors, but cranked in a room, it sound far more "Ampy" than any modeller i've previously used and will eventually be purchased and sat in my spare room.

As far as live solutions go, i know that Jeff Loomis is using a Kemper for all of his live work with Arch Enemy straight to PA/Desk so it is a viable solution.
your other options are something like a TwoNotes Torpedo - for speaker load and impulses to take your amp to the Desk or using some 1x12's mic'ed up (i've seen petrucci do this with no detriment to his live tone)

IMHO 4x12's look and sound great until you've actually got to move them

[CommonCourtesy]

Have you tried an Orange PPC412 cab?  I imagine they are readily available in the UK.  Four V30s and heavy construction.

I have one and it is absolutely killer with my Peavey.  When we play with other bands the guitarists are generally mad keen to borrow my cab for their set.

They weigh a ton though so you'll need one of those other guitarists or one of those useless vocalist blokes to help you carry it.

I don't let anyone borrow my amp head though ... seen too many drinks get spilled into them at shows and if it belongs to someone else it's always just the 'sorry man', which doesn't pay to get it fixed.  People can hire amps or bring their own!

I've played a few shows borrowing an Orange cab, and I agree they are the heaviest thing on earth!! The sound was pretty good though I had a different head and pickup configuration one of the times I used it, bit muddy and fizzy that time. I also recently recorded using a 5150 into an Orange 4 x 12 and it was pretty tasty.

I've lent out my amp head only a couple of times, and its been fine but it was only on the clean channel and they were using pedals to drive it. I try not to get into the habit of it though!