A retube and proper bias?

[downrodeo]

I have a Marshall DSL 100. I think the tone is decent. I have an EQ and BBE Sonic Maximizer and a bunch of other effects running through its loop. It sounds good, although I know it's not THE BEST out there as far as amp's go. I was thinking about having it retubed and rebiased by a tech and I was wondering what type of tubes I should get and how much better my tone will actually get once it's rebiased and retubed.

[lifted]

I read this review in the current "Guitarist" mag on the stands (w/ David Gilmour on the cover)  about Watford's Harma cryogenically treated tubes, and it kinda sold me on gettin' some.  They seem reasonably priced, too.

[deg0ey]

Glad I'm not the only one...I'm waiting for someone else to get them to see if they're worth the money for a full retube

Does anyone else want that black strat he's playing on the cover too? It looks so cool with the white hardware

[fps_dean]

I read this review in the current "Guitarist" mag on the stands (w/ David Gilmour on the cover)  about Watford's Harma cryogenically treated tubes, and it kinda sold me on gettin' some.  They seem reasonably priced, too.

It runs anywhere from $20 to 100% more expensive and as far as I'm concerned it is just a a marketing scam.  I actually bought them for my Major myself but after researching cryogenically freezing stuff a little and that tubes do not move and generate friction like say a trumpet value for example, there is no benefit to come from cryogenically freezing them. They have held up to this date 10 months later but that amp hasn't seen all that much play time either....

I'd pick up some SED "Winged C" EL34s for sure (not Svetlana, they aren't the same).  A proper bias on a JCM 2000 is a requirement these days as they come biased too cold from the factory.

[HTH AMPS]

I'm sceptical about this croyogenic treatment too, if it did really make current production valves sound like NOS then they'd do it at the factory.

As for what valves to use, I'd certainly give EH 6CA7s a try.  They're somewhere between 6L6s and EL34s tonally with good bass definition & grind.

 :twisted:

[downrodeo]

Where can I find these mysterious Winged C's?

[downrodeo]

Wow...40 dollars a pair??? I still need four preamp tubes...what are really good 12AX7's and are there less expensive top-notch power tubes out there???? I have to know.

[j7899]

I would get Electro Harmonix (EH) preamp tubes, or JJ/Tesla.  The EH have better musicial character from what I have read, a combo I plan on using is a EH preamp tubes, and JJ/Tesla power tubes.

You're in the US I would check out http://www.tubestore.com or http://www.tubedepot.com

[jordan]

I'm sceptical about this croyogenic treatment too, if it did really make current production valves sound like NOS then they'd do it at the factory.

I put a cyro Harma 12AX7 in the main driver position of my Rivera, and 4 x EH-12AX7 in the other positions. I gotta say, I'm not sold on it. I've swapped them over, and can't hear any massive difference. I'm glad I didn't buy 5 of the cyro valves, it would have been very expensive. Don't get me wrong, they're not bad at all, but I'm not convinced they're worth the extra money.

[fps_dean]

Where can I find these mysterious Winged C's?

www.thetubestore.com
www.tubedepot.com

I've ordered from both and have had good experiences with both of them.

I would get Electro Harmonix (EH) preamp tubes, or JJ/Tesla.  The EH have better musicial character from what I have read, a combo I plan on using is a EH preamp tubes, and JJ/Tesla power tubes.

You're in the US I would check out http://www.tubestore.com or http://www.tubedepot.com

I definitely wouldn't get JJs.  They aren't much of an upgrade from Sovteks, and I'm starting to think they're a downgrade from Sovteks.  Their preamp tubes are alright but the EHs are significantly gainier and have better mids and still less noise, although I'd suggest NOS for the preamp if you plan on keeping the amp and like the amp etc. since preamp tubes are good to go until they basically die.

I'm not sure about the EH power tubes, haven't used them too much.

[fps_dean]

I'm sceptical about this croyogenic treatment too, if it did really make current production valves sound like NOS then they'd do it at the factory.

I put a cyro Harma 12AX7 in the main driver position of my Rivera, and 4 x EH-12AX7 in the other positions. I gotta say, I'm not sold on it. I've swapped them over, and can't hear any massive difference. I'm glad I didn't buy 5 of the cyro valves, it would have been very expensive. Don't get me wrong, they're not bad at all, but I'm not convinced they're worth the extra money.

Depends where you get them.  They're usually twice the price.

While I have said I believe they are a rip off, I must say that it's not as big of a rip off as Groove Tubes.  Sure, they test the tubes and group them together so you can get a matched set.  That's great, but I can buy the tubes straight from the manufacturer from sites like I just listed that will test them for free, and they don't offer SEDs to boot, only more budget brands like Sovtek, JJ and various unnamed Chinese brands (not sure about EH).  The one tube that Groove Tubes does make, a 6L6, is pretty good though.

[fps_dean]

Wow...40 dollars a pair??? I still need four preamp tubes...what are really good 12AX7's and are there less expensive top-notch power tubes out there???? I have to know.

If you are looking on saving money, then NOS isn't the way to go.  If you want to spend a little money now on your preamp tubes, I'd suggest some RFT ECC83s.  If you shop around you can find them for $25usd although it is becoming harder and harder to find them under $40-50 these days.  They are significantly gainier than a JJ but quite a bit less gainy than the Amperex I have, but they have to be the meanest sounding preamp tubes I have ever heard while still retaining smoothness.  Otherwise I would suggest Electro Harmonix 12AX7s - gainy and have a good amount of midrange and much smoother than the Sovteks.

If you want so save some money, you can try JJ/Tesla for the poweramp but the difference in tone is pretty significant.  I would be willing to try EH (Electro Harmonix) in the poweramp.  Only EH poweramp tubes I have heard by them are their EL84s and they absolutely blew the JJs out of the water back to back in my Vox.   Not quite as good as the RCA blackplates I have in there now though, but if I had to settle for the ultra thinness of the JJs I would sell the amp.... yup, someone sold me 4 RCA blackplates for $80 and charged me $80 of labor to put them in before I knew what a cathode was... probably thought he was screwing me by charging $80 for 5 minutes of labor when he screwed himself on that one.  I have always said my Vox is much better sounding than all the other newer AC30s I've played, and that's why.  I put a brand new quad of JJ EL84s in it and it sounded like any other.

[downrodeo]

Thanks for the responses guys...I did e-mail Bob at Eurotubes and he sells JJ/Tesla tubes...I'm really surprised at your negative feedback though. So, I was thinking, now that I'm kind of confused on what to get, that I should go for some EH power and preamp tubes. Tell me if I shouldn't go for these.

[fps_dean]

Thanks for the responses guys...I did e-mail Bob at Eurotubes and he sells JJ/Tesla tubes...I'm really surprised at your negative feedback though. So, I was thinking, now that I'm kind of confused on what to get, that I should go for some EH power and preamp tubes. Tell me if I shouldn't go for these.

I'd be willing to try some EHs if I didn't want to fork out the extra cash for SEDs.  Granted they are owned by Sovtek (which are cr@p) but they're a lot better from my one experience with them, and their preamp tubes are pretty good and very low noise.