The pickup's effect on overall tone ...

[Twinfan]

I'm suprised by TO's findings and guess they must be similar players in terms of attack/ style and the tone thats in their head- if you know what I mean. I always found that using different equipment may bring out different aspects of my tone but my basic tone never changes- I always sound like me!

Completely agree.  I reckon TO and Jimmy play in a similar style.  I don't think the same pickup would account for the similarities.  I have a variety of guitars with very different pickups and I always sound like me.  Just muddier, clear or with more gain!

[PhilKing]

Having set up both TO and Jimmy's guitars and seen them play many times I can tell you that they have a totally different technique.  TO uses heavy picks and really attacks the notes whereas Jimmy has a very light touch.  

TO uses DR 10-46 pure blues, Jimmy uses 9,11,16,26,36,46 Hybrid Slinky.  

Some of it is the gain structure on the amps too, because they are both using a lot of gain but I know that a lot of it is the Cold Sweat, because before the pickup change for Jimmy, they were worlds apart!

[hunter]

hmmm, good thesis.

I would assume it is quite different depending on whether you are guitarist or not.

For a non-guitarist it's probably 10% gear and 90% player (assuming that the gear even if minor quality is well set up) but for a guitarist audience it's maybe closer to 40% gear and 60% player or sth?

hmmmm....

Or the other way round?

Forget my post, it's a shite theory :oops:

[Doog]

good gear/pickups can make you play better...

AMEN. my practice amp makes me practice because it has good tone. my MG makes me storm out of my rehearsal room to practice with my little amp.
my mouth waters when playing through my practice amp, but it dries up when playing through the MG.

i could go on and on, but you get the picture.

I've always thought of mgs as practice amps anyway

[BloodMountain]

hmmm, good thesis.

I would assume it is quite different depending on whether you are guitarist or not.

For a non-guitarist it's probably 10% gear and 90% player (assuming that the gear even if minor quality is well set up) but for a guitarist audience it's maybe closer to 40% gear and 60% player or sth?

hmmmm....

Or the other way round?

Forget my post, it's a shitee theory :oops:

non guitarists don't give a cr@p about gear. i talk to my friends sometimes about gear, and they just either don't listen or do the classic "smile and nod"
i care about other guitarists gear if i like their sound.....

so your theory must be right!!

and Doog, yeah, they are basically big practice amps. big, horrible practice amps.

[TwilightOdyssey]

I know it goes against conventional wisdom, but the proof is in the pudding as it were. Waiting for Phil to weigh in now that he's heard the flat tracks ...

[dave_mc]

^ I think I read an article a while back where andy sneap was saying trivium would have sounded better on one of their albums with "X" pickup rather than the ones they did use...

I liked this thread. Bit of a change, got us all thinking. Nice job, ben. :drink:

[Tim]

Personally I think compression plays a role when recording  as to how similar two players might sound-the less playing dynamics that are present, ie with a heavily compressed tone, the harder it is to identify the players natural signature. In Iced Earth when we track, often Jon and I will use the same guitar and amp for continuity but our playing styles and more importantly tone on the same equipment is very different-the more compressed the tone, ie the higher gain stuff or hotter p/ups, the harder it is to tell us apart.The more dynamic material, usually with lower output pickups too, the differences in our tone are much more apparent even though we're playing the same gear and similar parts
Cold Sweat humbuckers, despite being medium output, can push an amp reasonably hard, especially if you're using hefty strings and digging in quite hard so I expect they're contributing to tightening things up nicely and getting you both tonally locked in.

[PhilKing]

Having heard the rough mix, I can say 3 things

1) the song is incredibly tight - no wonder they sound like one guitar, I think that some people might not realise that there are 2 players!
2) unless you know the style of Ben (TO) and Jimmy, there is no way you can tell them apart
3) TO's tone is darker than usual, which I think contributes some of the similarity.  

As Tim mentioned, when the gain is up and the dynamics are down, some tone goes out of the door.  They are tracking a very hot signal and they do play the same phrases in many places.  It shows how playing a song out helps when you come to track it in the studio.  Everything is locked in place, the drums and bass are right in the pocket too.  I suspect that in the final mix there might be a little more difference in the guitar tones, but that would be processing after the fact.

As a lower gain player, I like to let the guitar come through a bit more, and I am sure if they were playing at a lower gain setting there would be much more difference.  Having said that, I am still amazed at the similarity between the sounds given the difference in equipment and style.  However it is not going to make me sell any guitars or stop buying any more pickups!!!

Just waiting for my PG set - that will show TO tone  :orcass:

[TwilightOdyssey]

Just waiting for my PG set - that will show TO tone

Isn't that the one with the broken neck pickup? PDT_008

[Tim]

:lol: not broken....................just different :lol: !