Restringing floyd problem!

[BloodMountain]

hi
just been installing my pig with my dad, but while i was tuning the new strings up, the floyd was hopelessly high! and i wasnt even at the tuning i wanted yet! i am now using heavy 12-54 strings in C# standard, and it was using 9s or 10s in standard, if that has something to do with it.

please help, the screws on the back of the floyd are not budging!

thanks!

[_tom_]

I would guess that the trem springs just need tightening, or perhaps you need to add another one? That being said, I dont own a guitar with floating trem, so I dont have any experience, but that seems the most logical thing.

[BloodMountain]

thanks for the response

the thing is we can't tighten them any further - and that includes my dad who is 5x stronger than me....

and there are 3 springs (the max) on there already...

so can you get springs with higher tension?

thanks

[_tom_]

I think Feline said that Schaller springs are a bit stiffer so would be a bit higher tension.. I know this is a stupid question, but did you loosen the strings before trying to tighten the trem springs?

[BloodMountain]

:oops:

i didn't know you were supposed to do that.... it won't make any difference will it?

where can i get these springs from?

[_tom_]

Well from what I understand, getting a floyd set up right is all about balance.. if the strings are pulling too tight it'll pull the bridge up/forwards. Then again you did say you havent even got to the tuning you wanted yet, so they must be pretty slack allready? I just assumed that the strings were pretty tight for some reason, so loosening them should make it easier to pull the trem back down? I dunno, I'm just going by my common sense, which may or may not be a good thing :lol:

You can get Schaller springs from Feline.

[MentalTan]

Well from what I understand, getting a floyd set up right is all about balance.. if the strings are pulling too tight it'll pull the bridge up/forwards. Then again you did say you havent even got to the tuning you wanted yet, so they must be pretty slack allready? I just assumed that the strings were pretty tight for some reason, so loosening them should make it easier to pull the trem back down? I dunno, I'm just going by my common sense, which may or may not be a good thing :lol:

You can get Schaller springs from Feline.

Yeah that is weird, the more you loosen the strings the further the bridge sink into the body. Of course you want it to be level. So my advice would be to tune your guitar to the tuning you want, lock the nut and see where the bridge sits, if it's still too high and you can't tighten the claw springs any farther add another spring. Actually I just made a post on how to level a floating bridge...
Here it is...
http://www.bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?p=102637#102637

[BloodMountain]

right, i tuned down 5 semitones from standard ( so now it's B standard) last night, and it was sunk in to the cavity ever so slightly. so my dad started to loosen the springs, but he gave up (don't know why, hat an idiot) and told me to tune up a semitone. so i did. and now it's ever so slightly raised out of the cavity  :lol:

so, i think i just need to lower it by tightening the springs slightly and evenly, then live with the guitar in C standard. i originally wanted it in C# standard, but i'm not going to risk that much tension, even with powerful springs.

thanks for the help, MentalTan and tom, it's good shite. i'll report back if it buggers up again  :D

[Spider]

Going down a guage of strings would probably make quite a difference.

Floyd's are bar-stewards to get right. You have to get even tension between the strings, and the springs.

The higher guage strings you use, the more tension. Same goes for the tuning. The closer it is to standard, the more tension there will be.

 I usually try get it so the strings are slightly lower than they need to be, and the floyd is sunk into the cavity a little bit. And then raise the tuning up to where it needs to be, and it'll bring the bridge up to being level. I'm no expert though. I've always just used trial and error.

[Pierre]

Did you read that link I sent you man? :s I think I mentioned something about adding springs in my article.

I always use at least 4 springs myself. If the Floyd is way high that'd tame it down.

I never had problems tightening down a trem's spring claw with the strings at full tension. I actually never do it.

I don't see why you can't try C# though man. Stretch these strings up and reset it to where you want, you should be fine.

Also your Floyd should definitely be able to take 5 springs. I'd get a new one myself if not, though if you like it with 3 that's fair enough. Your local tech should be able to sell you some if you think it's not stiff enough.

Never tightened/loosen the spring's claw until the Floyd is parrallel. Because then you'd have to retune and it'd sink/raise even more. It's all about feel. It took about 2 restringing before I got to the level I am, but it's honestly very straightforward, I never had any problems setting up Floyds, be it my own or my friend's.

[gwEm]

i'd go for stiffer springs, from feline (as others have said), or allparts. try with 3 or 4 springs. could also try a set of 11s as spider suggested.

a couple of weeks a go, i was playing around with my floyd quite abit. this is the method i found:

block the tremolo with a block of wood in the space furthest away from the neck. get the depth of this wood so that the bridge is perfectly flat. tune the guitar, lock the nut and get everything set up with this block in place. then remove the block and adjust the spring tension until you get the guitar in tune. with not-too-much luck all the strings will be in tune, and the bridge will be in exactly the right place. dont be afraid to add too much tension i guess.

[BloodMountain]

thanks everyone!

Spider, that is a thought, but 11s at C# standard in a 24.75" guitar? the strings'll be flapping won't they? plus the sound won't be as beefy....

Pierre, i read the whole thing, but must've skipped that bit because i thought i wouldn't need it  :oops: noobie mistake.

so, it sounds like an extra spring is in order! or perhaps a new tighter set..

block the tremolo with a block of wood in the space furthest away from the neck. get the depth of this wood so that the bridge is perfectly flat. tune the guitar, lock the nut and get everything set up with this block in place. then remove the block and adjust the spring tension until you get the guitar in tune. with not-too-much luck all the strings will be in tune, and the bridge will be in exactly the right place. dont be afraid to add too much tension i guess.

really sorry dude, but i don't get it..... i understood up to the red word....

thanks everyone!

[gwEm]

sorry mate, in fact i thought you'd understand /after/ the red word :) here it is again:

first you need to temporarily block the trem.

put a block of wood in the space between the trem block and the bottom of the guitar. put a single spring in to provide earthing.

the wood should be the right depth so as to make the bridge level and the right height

now tune up, and lock the nut.

add some springs in the trem cavity - lets say 3 stiff springs. tighten the claw a bit.

remove the block

now the guitar will be totally out of tune ;)

but now adjust the claw so the guitar is in tune. dont touch the fine tuners.

hopefully (the usual case :) ) - all the strings will be in tune, and the bridge will be at the right height.

i dont know if this is the "right" way - but it works for me, and isn't too painful

[BloodMountain]

ahhhh i see! thanks for the pic, that helped. you just needed to add in
"when you tune up, it won't pull the trem up because the block will be in the way"
because i'm slow at working things out.

thanks though, i will get some springs. although, i don't know if our singer will be better in B, C or C# standard  :?

although for the songs i have only just written, the only vocal style that goes is the death grunt  :twisted: so there would be no tune!

{/thoughts}