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Author Topic: My phrasing is rubbish - what can I do?  (Read 3073 times)

Elliot

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My phrasing is rubbish - what can I do?
« on: June 11, 2007, 09:36:42 PM »
Ok - so I know my scales - I know the chords that fit them - but my phrasing just comes out cr@ppy - like the same cheesy blues licks that people play after they first learn the pentatonic scale.

What can you do to get a better understanding of how to phrase things?
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Muso

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My phrasing is rubbish - what can I do?
« Reply #1 on: June 11, 2007, 09:52:57 PM »
listening to guitarists with really good phrasing, try Marty Friedman and Blues Saraceno

Davey

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My phrasing is rubbish - what can I do?
« Reply #2 on: June 11, 2007, 10:02:24 PM »
what muso said.

now that you have the basic knowledge, you have to find things that work within (and outside) those boundaries.

listen to different players, from any style, copy them, implement what they play/teach into your OWN playing. develop your own phrasing that way.

Crazy_Joe

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My phrasing is rubbish - what can I do?
« Reply #3 on: June 11, 2007, 10:10:03 PM »
+1 to the others, i think experimenting with different kinds of rhythms and playing over them would help.

Edit: not sure if this is what you're after but this could help - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FCojcP_6AkI&mode=related&search=
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_tom_

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My phrasing is rubbish - what can I do?
« Reply #4 on: June 11, 2007, 10:35:01 PM »
Listen to/study Slash's playing. Thats what I did (because I heard he was good at phrasing :lol: ) and whenever I take part in the electric guitar jams on harmony central, people always seem to comment on my (apparently good) phrasing, so I must be doing something right I guess.

Muzzzz

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My phrasing is rubbish - what can I do?
« Reply #5 on: June 12, 2007, 08:16:38 AM »
+1000 on everything said.

Plus, do you know all 5 pentatonic shapes up the neck? Learning to change between them effortlessly may help too.
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Pyro

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My phrasing is rubbish - what can I do?
« Reply #6 on: June 12, 2007, 08:45:47 AM »
I have been told my phraseing is very good(I kind of doubt it, but here are some things that may help)

Also, to note, most of this is written from my improv orientated approach at guitar, as I was already playing trombone, bass, and drums before I picked up the guitar, I originlly thought I would be in jazz(little did I know that I would get addicted to Prog soon) So it may not be the best way if you have already studied in one fashion.


!. Just play. It sucks, but when you started guitar, although you may not remember it, you likely held the pick wrong, had your fingers wrong on the fretboard, your thumb was god knows where, and you simply did not know the technique. The same goes for improv play. If you practice by sitting down and practiceing technique, thats great, you probably are faster than most people, but you also need to devote time to simply play and have fun on the guitar. For every hour of serious technical study of Alternate picking, I probably spent three staring at my ceiling playng random notes in C. Why? Because its fun, just play the thing, its why you got it. Hendrix(as well as other guitarists) didn't just study scales and chords. In fact, Hendrix spent most of his time jamming whenever he could, just playing with friends in a relaxed environment. (a real good idea that relaxed environment is, sure easy to learn stuff in too :wink: )

2. Use a different idea to play. For me, its the idea that I'm painting instead of playing the guitar. I try not to think of it as a technical instrument, and instead just let practice go to work and play in the scales I know work, and try not to be doing anything in particular. Although I have an overall idea in a painting(for the guitar a key riff), I don't spend my whole time perfecting this one object, I fool around and get loose around it, or tighten up and play more seriously. I try to not think of playing, while I am, if that makes any sense. It takes off a lot of pressure from myself.

3. There are VERY few wrong notes. Unless your in a classical setting or in a very tightass jazz group, most people won't actually know if your hitting a dissonant note(well the guitarists will, but theyre not paying you :)) My favorite guitarist, Omar Rodriguez-Lopez, plays dissonant notes all the time. In fact, he probably plays more notes (that sound, I should note) out of key then in on most songs.  He just knows how to react and use these notes to draw interest, or just plain he can go with the flow. For a brief lesson idea(and fun use in song), play the top two strings on your guitar. It sounds pretty good. Now, fret the first fret on the first string, and play them, then move up a fret on that sting. Do not fret the other string. Try and listen to each interval. When you fret the seventh fret on the ffirst sting, and play the first and second, you have an octave, and nice interval :). As you can see, there certainly are ones that sound strange, but none of those, especially if used in context, would by themselves drive someone from a room. In fact, there are some Noise songs made entirely of horrific sounding intervals,and use them in chords to make more outside the box sounds.

The fact is other musicians most times are VERY forgiving on solos, and if you are improving a rhytm part, even more so. If anyone gives you cr@p, ask them to play it "correctly" by their terms  :twisted:

Anyway, I hope that helps, those are some of my ideas.

gingataff

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My phrasing is rubbish - what can I do?
« Reply #7 on: June 12, 2007, 03:12:07 PM »
Try and get hold of Scott Henderson's tuition videos/DVDs, he talks a lot about phrasing, there are some clips on youtube as a taster.
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Crazy_Joe

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My phrasing is rubbish - what can I do?
« Reply #8 on: June 13, 2007, 01:34:22 PM »
Quote from: gingataff
Try and get hold of Scott Henderson's tuition videos/DVDs, he talks a lot about phrasing, there are some clips on youtube as a taster.


Ha, i know someone called Scott Henderson :P
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Woogie

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My phrasing is rubbish - what can I do?
« Reply #9 on: June 13, 2007, 05:50:22 PM »
Blues Saraceno is a beast!!

Study Jake E Lee of course, chops to burn.

JamesHealey

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My phrasing is rubbish - what can I do?
« Reply #10 on: June 15, 2007, 08:42:28 AM »
use information from the melody over that chord progression, add subtract time and notes, use arpeggios in an interesting manor try to be fluent with them and this all comes from years and years of practice im nowhere near the best at phrasing at all but I've learned a lot about phrasing from my guitar tutor at music college over the past 3 years.