Vintage 30 vs. G12H for an Avatar 1x12 cab (w/ Tiny Terror)

[Armchair Bronco]

OK, I know this question has been asked a bunch of time before, but I'm gonna ask it again in my own way.

I can't decide between a G12H and a V30 speaker for an Avatar 1x12 cab I'd like to order.  I'll be pairing it up with an Orange Tiny Terror that I'm getting next month.

Most of the time, I'll be playing the amp at low volumes.

I generally use only the bridge pickup on my HB-based guitars, and I play mostly stoner rock & grunge: AC/DC, Zep, Nirvana, and The Wipers.

I'm pretty sure that no matter which speaker I choose, I'll end up with Buyer's Remorse just like I always do...  But any tips or suggestions on which speaker to choose will be appreciated.  

[Armchair Bronco]

Since most of the folks on the forum seem to be in the UK, I thought I'd post a link to the Avatar site (Avatar operates out of Idaho in the Pacific Northwest to the east of me in Seattle).

Here's the main site:  http://www.avatarspeakers.com

And here's the 1x12 page: http://www.avatarspeakers.com/g112.htm

In addition to lots of different Celestion speakers, Avatar also sells broken-in versions of the G12H and the V30 (Avatar calls them "Hellatones").  The stock Celestions are played hard for 15 hours, and I think they're actually a few dollars cheaper than the originals.

The Avatar 1x12 cabinets are also almost cube-like at 17"x17"x15.5".

To top it off, one of the finish options is orange tolex for folks using the Tiny Terror or Rocker heads.

[ailean]

Not my area of expertise but I know Orange use the Vintage 30 in their 2x12's and 4x12's. I heard a TT through a 4x12 in the shop and it sounded great, but I've not heard a comparisson to anything else.

[Armchair Bronco]

Yeah, the Orange 2x12's are too expensive for me.  A 1x12 Avatar, on the other hand, fits the bill pretty well as a practice cab, and if I get a 16 ohm version, I can get another 16 ohm 1x12 down the road and connect 'em both to the Tiny Terror (and have a mini-stack that's 34" high).

A lot of folks who get the 2x12 from Avatar have one V30 and one G12H; I'll probably end up doing something similar with a couple of 1x12 cabs...eventually.

In the meantime, I need to pick the right speaker, and all I'm looking for now is some anecdotal feedback from folks who have strong opinions one way or the other about V30's vs. G12H's.

What really sucks about the Celestion website (and as websites go, it's a pretty good one) is that their various speaker sound samples aren't comparing oranges to oranges: they'll have a "Blues" sample of the V30 on a Strat paired up against a totally different "Blues" sample of the G12H on a Les Paul with completely different amp settings, pedals, players, etc. for each sample.

The individual samples are great, but when you're trying to pick "the right" speaker, you need to have some consistency from one sound sample to the next!

[Armchair Bronco]

One last thing: I'm talking about the Celestion G12H30, not the more expensive Heritage G12H.

The basic Avatar 1x12 cab sells for $199, and includes one of the following speakers: Hellatone 30, Hellatone 60, Hellatone 60L,  Celestion Greenback , Celestion Classic Lead 80, Celestion G12H30, Celestion G12T75, Celestion G12T100, Celestion Vintage 30.

The Celestion Heritage G12H (as well as the G12M and G12-65) raise the price to $319.  And for $400, you can get the cab with Alnico speakers.

[Miracle Man]

Well, it all depends on the kind of music you like to play. If you play metal I'd go with vintage 30s. But if you bought a TT, i don't really think you play metal  :D   For straight up rock' n roll I like the G12H better. It has a clearer top end and it doesnt have a spiky midrange. It's sort of like a Greenback, but has more bass and is a bit more agressive. Hope I helped  :)

[hamfist]

Both the V30 and the G12H30 (anni) are great, well-respected speakers.
  V30's have a sort of upper midrange honk, which I really like. Many folks, however, do not like it.  the G12H30 has less mids, but more lows and highs.
  This clip - http://www.pebbleman.co.za/ricker/Celestion%20comparison.mp3 - is a good comparison example of the two speakers (plus the expensive Celestion Gold). The order of the speakers in the clip is 1/Gold, 2/ V30, 3/ G12H30. all speakers were played in the same cab, with the same miking.
 ( Please note, this is NOT my work - see http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showthread.php?t=224046, for the original thread ).
  If you really cannot decide between the two, I would go for the V30, purely because Orange voices all it's other current amps around V30s, and put's V30's in all it's cabs and combos.
  Or - buy both, decide which one you like, and sell the other (or keep it for your next cab !).  The market on ebay for mint V30's and G12H30's is pretty good by the way.
  Good luck !

Alan

[kevincurtis]

As Ailean says, Orange put v30s in their cabs and they do sound great so obviously well matched - I was considering one for my JCM800 but went with a G12H with the consideration that I would put a V30 in my Laney at some point, and use as a pair...and thanks Alan - these clips have made up my mind that that is exactly what I will do :)

[Twinfan]

Right, I have a TT and these are my two favourite speakers.  So I should be able to help  :)

I currently use my TT with a 2x12 fitted with both a G12H Anniversary and a Vintage 30.  The pair sound great together, so your long term plan is spot on.  My 4x12 with V30s and G12H Heritages sounds even better though  ;)

Short term, given the music style you listed and the lower volume you'll be using, I'd go for a G12H in your first cab.  In my experience, speakers sound best when they're pushing a good proportion of their power handling - over a third or a so.  A low volume TT (around 5 watts?) through a 60w Vintage 30 (that's 1/12 or 8% of speaker output) isn't going to be ideal.  It will sound OK, but the speaker isn't moving enough to balance your tone properly.  You'll get a LOT of mids, which may sound a bit "honky".

On the other hand, 5w through a 30w speaker is twice the percentage of power handling (1/6 or 17% of speaker output).  The G12H has a thick solid bass (important for filling up the sound of a low wattage amp) and good clear highs.  There are less mids than a V30 available so you won't get that honky box sound at lower volumes.  If you decide to run the TT clean, the G12H is also much nicer sounding here as the lower mids gives a much more ear friendly clean tone.

So, get the G12H in your first cab and start saving for the V30 equipped add-on  ;)

[Philly Q]

Slightly off-topic, but how would a G12M compare in a similar setting (particularly in comparison with the G12H)?

[Twinfan]

Not sure Philly - it's on my list of things to try at some point.  I would imagine it would sit somewhere between the G12H/V30 tonally, in that it would have a more balanced tone, with a warmer overall feel and a looser, rounder bass.  As a VERY, VERY rough guide, the tone of the speakers mentioned in this thread are:

V30 EQ curve:    ^
G12H EQ curve:  v
G12M EQ curve:  -

[DeanS]

I went thro this speaker choice when I re-speakered my Harly and spec'd up a 2X12 for my TT.

I know a lot of people rate the V30's but they're defineteley not for me- just don't get 'em.

Okay IMO G12 H's vs. G12M's-

G12H-                                                 G12M

More efficient                                     Less efficient
Less Mids + gritty top end                   More Mids +sweet top end
More Highs and Lows                          Less with creamy mid range
Punchier
more clarity and ballsy                        Softer sound

After comparing the standard versions with the Heritage ones I found the Heritage tones to be so smoooooth with better clarity.

I ended up with a G12M 20 Heritage in my Harly and a 2X 12 cab with one H and one M heritage versions which I mainly use with the TT or my Marshall.

[DeanS]

Whoops lost the format of my 'table'

G12H more effiecient, louder, More Bass and Treble with grittier top end, More clarity, pinchier more balls more clarity

G12M more mids (scratchy mids?) less effiicient, Less Bass and Treble with a smooth and very sweet top end, Softer with creamy midrange

[Philly Q]

Thanks guys, I'm thinking the G12M (probably regular, not Heritage, on cost grounds) sounds my kind of thing.  :)

But I'm putting the cart well before the horse, because my TT still hasn't turned up and I don't have a cab at all yet!  :roll:

(Apologies for the thread hijack)

[Ted]

I found this helpful.

http://www.watfordvalves.com/cgi-bin/documents/testreport_40.pdf