£50 for a guitar and amplifier

[blue]

my first was a Columbus strat copy, with a neck apparently made of rubber and a bridge that seemed to be tin foil covered cardboard!  and it cost about £100 near twenty years ago.  i got a ten watt single channel transistor combo with it with a "distortion" control (it added wet fart noises) which was another £80.  when i see what can be got today for that kind of money i'm astounded!  and people still complain!

on topic though, those starter guitars are the bread and butter of the average guitar shop.  the fact that the big supermarkets are moving in on it is yet another simple of our ever more homogenised society.  soon there will ONLY be Tesco, Sainsbury etc.  who'll be happy then when there IS no choice?

[JDC]

Argos already sells cheap cr@p so I think Tesco will cut into their profits more than guitar shops, never the less they will cut into guitar shop profits

I started on a BC Rich Warlock Bronze, which I borrowed from a mate, so I guess I'm kind of lucky, then after 6 months my mate wanted his guitar back so I got a Jackson RR3 and seriously got the bug, I am however guilty of the try in a shop and then buy online dilemma

money makes the world go round and we live in a competitive environment

I also think there are too many guitarists, we need more bassists and drummers, too many bands out there are looking for new drummers

[headtheball]

Thing is, the average Tesco shelf monkey (no offence to any employees, current or past, here present) hasn't a baldy clue what a guitar should be set like in even the vaguest terms. Given that these instruments are the cheapest dirt they can find (let's not kid ourselves, like, none of us are going to be down to Tesco's hunting around for "a good one"), so the QC is going to be complete pish.

Now, when Little Johnny fecks his hand up on dodgy fret ends etc. what happens? Bad and all as some of the music shops are, i'd hope in my heart they'd give a guitar a quick eye over before selling it to a kid (or indeed anyone else). Placing such a job in the hands of folk who don't know what the hell they're doing is immensely stupid.

Also, even the most dastatrdly bricks and mortar shop would have the good grace to chuck in a few plectrums, fix dodgy electrics, even wing in a set of strings etc for a new customer (repeat business being the lifeblood). Tesco etc. just don't have the capacity for that kind of thing. And when you inevitably need such things (or a lead that isn't made of candyfloss and spit, as most "starter packs" include by default) where will you have to go?

It's a bad idea, up and down.

[headtheball]

And, having just looked at them there now, barring them being incredibly special in the flesh, those Gibson "GBME" Guitars Argos are selling look completely egregious. It's one thing for Gibson to have one Cadet brand in Epiphone, but saints alive, are things now so bad they feel the need to undercut themselves again, and further sodomise the reputation for quality Gibson used to represent?

[MDV]

Good post Jonathan.

I have a rather controversial point of view on this.

First, the cheaper an entrance into guitar playing can be made, the better. There shouldn't be major hurdles. More new starters also increases your potential target group by the way  

My own experience, when I started to play, I did not get very good advise from the retail, it was more of a rip-off - luckily I bought a Tokai strat against the advise of the shop guy (because it was red like the one of Mark Knopfler).

What is happening at the moment is an increasing importance of web forums and web sites, clips on youtube and other sites, as well as harmony central reviews etc.

Also it is rather easy to become a semi expert in no time with all the resources that are available on the internet. So today, if someone seriously wants to start guitar, he might go to a shop with already a narrowed down selection of what he wants, and will face a fight between the retailer's recommended models and the web recommendation.

Then the frustration will often be that the models that people want to try are not available, so they will either buy something else or go home and order online.

Probably retail is gonna be replaced by Online in the long term and only the big chains will survive - which is the trend in most businesses. There are always some retailers that stay small but are smart enough to use change for their own advantage.

For example why are delaers not charging for the ability to test an instrument or amplifier? It's degrading its value, so why not charge a fee?

Actually personally I can live with the current development, it is what the community wants, as long as there are still builders and people that repair stuff, which at least here in Brussels, there are plenty (independent from dealers).

The only way to change the development would be through government intervention, e.g. taxes or restrictions, but those are always bad for the consumer.

Reasonable points, but I dont think that internet retail is going to supplant shop-buying. Simple reason being there will aways be a proportion of people (probably higher on a forum with a high ratio of "semi-experts", like this one) that are more experienced, therefore have been burned in untested purchases and insist on trying out gear in person before buying and go for the item in their hands (or what its plugged into) rather than the net.

With amps and electronics this is less of an issue, but plenty of guitarists are wise to the variations in instrument quality out of the same factory and will buy guitars, specifically, that they have played.

[Sailor Charon]

insist on trying out gear in person before buying and go for the item in their hands (or what its plugged into) rather than the net.

I've been lucky with the guitars I've had off the net. There's always the flipside of course, if you can't find somewhere with the guitar you want in stock...
Plus, I got my Av3 from my local music shop, but, because I'd had to order it, never got to try it out...

[MDV]

Yeah, I've had some good luck and no choice in a couple of things too. But also some dreadfull luck.

Good luck: My RG7321. My drummer has one, and its pretty good for the price, so I took the chance and ordered one myself and its, if anything, better (bar the awfull pickups, but I expected that and they wont be in there long!).

No choice: My Emu 1616M, Adam A7 monitors and NAD C352 amp (to power my DM602s, which I was fortunate enough to be able to hear before I got). There was no way in hell I could, with where I live, try out enough stuff to make a really educated decision, so I read specs, reviews and user testimonials for all sorts of stuff till I coulndt stand the sight of the them any more then made decisions on what to get. I love the gear, but I dont know how good it really is because I've used so little else!!

Bad luck: I ordered a Kramer imperial (explorer with a hetfieldy diamond plate) that had the bridge positioned incorrectly and was impossible to get closer than about 1/4 of tone to correclty intonated. This (plus playing guitars that are of the same model, on the same stand from the same factory that sounded far more different than you would expect) stopped me from buying any more guitars that I havent played first.

[HTH AMPS]

Only bought two guitars on the net...

* '67 Gibson SG junior... amazing resonance, a P90 that was heavy as a whale omelette but unfortunetely no neck angle so the action was still WAY too high with the bridge as low as I could get it.  This meant that it was very difficult to play anything in tune above the first few frets.  It needed a neck reset really and it would have been immense - but that would've been a shame on a vintage guitar, cost a fortune and devalued it.

* Epi Japan Les Paul junior... very resonant, already upgraded with a Fralin P90 and Jensen PIO caps.  Sounds very nice indeed and plays in tune all over the neck.  The relief needs sorting as the strings almost choke when fretted on the 1st fret.  The P90 doesn't handle stompboxes well, but I always expect to change pickups to BKPs anyway.  Can't go wrong for £320

 :twisted: