Looking for advice on BKP's for my Gibson Les Paul

[Scotty477]

It's my first post here, so hello everyone  :)

I'm looking for some advice on what BKP's to fit to my Gibson Les Paul Classic, which currently has stock pup's - 496R and 500T.

The guitar is fairly standard in construction. It's a gold top (bullion) colour and has an unchambered one piece mahogany body with maple cap and a rosewood fingerboard and mahogany neck.

I currently play in a wedding/party type band but will shortly be converting back to blues/classic rock and maybe some indie rock thrown in.

At the moment I go direct into the PA when playing live - via a Boss GT6 but will amost certainly be getting a Marshall Valve combo later.

My influences are Gary Moore, Dave Gilmour, Neil Young and Jimmy Page - which may give you an idea of why I'm having a tough time in choosing the right BKP's.

I'm looking for 2 things from the pickups I get. I'd like them to be able to produce a warm crunch/dirty tone and also be able to clean up well.

Basically I'm looking for slightly more than just PAF vintage but not too hot ... and be able to produce well defined, articulate solo sounds.

Before I found out about BKP's I was originally going to buy a set of Seymour Duncans - SH-11 Custom Custom (Bridge) and AP2 for the neck.

My guitar tech basically told me to hold off and have a look at BKP's, so here I am .... and I have to say I'm impressed with what I've heard so far.

It's also good to see such a decent and humorous forum community  :D

I have carried out a few searches of previous posts, before I posted this as well as listening to some samples and out of this I'm initially thinking of getting a set based around these options:


Bridge

Emerald, Mule or Black Dog

Neck

Stormy Monday or Mule

Any advice would be very much appreciated.

[Ratrod]

I would say Mules but if you're leaning more to a blues sound rather than a rock sound you could get a new PG Blues.

[Twinfan]

Welcome  :)

If you can hang on a couple of days, the combo I'm putting in my Tokai Love Rock may suit you.  I have an Alnico IV Mule in the bridge and I'm putting an Alnico IV Stormy Monday in the neck.  I have a pair of Mules in another guiitar and the neck is very full sounding - great, but not always ideal for some things.  The slightly sweeter SM neck with the full Mule in the bridge should be an awesomely flexible set up.  I'll let you know what I think.

If you like a fuller tone, then a pair of Black Dogs or a Black Dog bridge / Mule neck combination may suit you.  Depeneds how full or thick a tone you want????  Have a listen to Hunter's Black Dog clips or _Tom_'s Mule clips in the player section and see what you think....

[indysmith]

Standard Mule set sounds like what you want

[Catalyst77]

For the bridge I'd say you cant go wrong with either a mule/black dog or Crawler - they will all be 100% suitable.  

No sure about the emerald - i had one in my les paul and it sounded great but i dont think its as versatile as some of the others. - it makes a stunning middle pickup.

As for the neck; The mule is my favourite - it just oozes smooth tone and expression.

Ive never tried a stormy monday in the neck.  I have one in the bridge of another les paul epiphone - to me it sounds completely balanced across the eq - great for punk.

[PhilKing]

Having all of the pickup combos you have listed, and been a blues/rock player myself, I would go with one of 2 sets.  For a slightly more aggressive Gary Moore/Neil Young sound, the Emerald with an AIV Mule in the neck.  This can do 'Still In Love With You', 'Like A Hurricane', 'Rock n' Roll' and all points between.  For a little less aggressive sound, and to bring in the Dave Gilmour sounds, then a Riff Raff/AIV Stormy Monday set will work.  This is a smoother sound and will get into "Shine On You Crazy Diamond' sounds as well as still being good for all the other sounds.

[Henk]

Basically I'm looking for slightly more than just PAF vintage but not too hot ... and be able to produce well defined, articulate solo sounds.

For this i would definately say alnico IV mule for the brigde and Alnico II or IV stormy monday for the neck. I now have an alnico IV mule set, but found the neck pickup great for a more bluesy/dirty rythm tone, but its so much less tight then the bridge mule it doesnt always combine well.

I was also looking for a vintage PAF but slightly hotter/contemporary. The mule is very bright and open sounding pickup but still has the PAF characteristics all over it. Its just so versatile, for any rythm or lead, you can even get strat like clarity off it. I do have unpotted ones though, BKP makes them in such a way you wont have very little to no feedback issues.

Compared to the stock pickups youll get a way better and more articulate midrange and clearer high end. It will also sound more organic, especially the 500T can be rather disappointing as livelyness and string dynamics are consearned IMO. The output will be less, but due to the clarity gain it wont sound that way trough the amp, ill even say you would have to turn your amp down a bit.

Hope this helps,

Greetings, Henk

[Donatello]

This is might not what you ask for, but I swaped my 496R and 500T to a pair of Crawlers, and that was the best thing I´ve ever done with that guitar/any guitar. From beeing hard/hash/lifeless sounding it really came alive and got "TONE".

I was into another type of sound than what you describe. I wanted a more singing/fat lead tone. I wrote to Tim about a set of Mules but after I told him what a was after and my style he recomended me the Crawlers. And after listening the Geoff-clips I realized that was exactly what I was looking for. And I GOT IT! I am very pleased...

[ilÿti]

This is might not what you ask for, but I swaped my 496R and 500T to a pair of Crawlers, and that was the best thing I´ve ever done with that guitar/any guitar. From beeing hard/hash/lifeless sounding it really came alive and got "TONE".

I was into another type of sound than what you describe. I wanted a more singing/fat lead tone. I wrote to Tim about a set of Mules but after I told him what a was after and my style he recomended me the Crawlers. And after listening the Geoff-clips I realized that was exactly what I was looking for. And I GOT IT! I am very pleased...

That is pretty much exactly what Tim told me, except I wasn't too impressed with Geoff's clips. Too fuzzy a tone to my taste. I though he'd recommend Mules, Black Dog, or Emerald but just like this, the Crawlers turned out to be what I wanted.
They might be a little too high in the output for what you're looking for though.

[Scotty477]

Thanks for all the suggestions.

The Mule bridge does sound great but it's perhaps a little thick for my taste, although I do like the mule neck.

The crawler bridge sounds really nice, although the neck has an element of fuzz that I'd like to avoid - certainly from the demo anyway. As for them being too high an output ... anything compared to the ceramic monster that is the 500T will be welcome  :lol:  

I'd love to hear more examples of the Rebel Yell and Emerald, although they seem to be far removed from a PAF sound.

Bottom line is I'm still trying to decide.

I'm just off to hunt for VHII clips now ...

[Henk]

Thanks for all the suggestions.

The Mule bridge does sound great but it's perhaps a little thick for my taste, although I do like the mule neck.

The mule bridge will sound very thick trough a dirty gain channel of an JCM800 or something like that, clean it just sounds very tight, clear and open with allmost an acoustic guitar quality to it which is quite unique.

The 500T is alot darker, alot less focussed sound IMO. Cleans are not that usable unless split as a single coil. It also has the tendency to go 'over the top' when distorted which is also the reason why many players like the 500T. Someone said here on the forum that the BKP painkiller sounds close (but is clearer) to the 500T, so maybe that will help you with making a comparison. Obviously the 500T is no PAF and you will actually hear so much more of your playing and technique with the mule or other PAF.

Another option to consider would be getting a 4 conductor bridge pickup so you can use it as a single coil, or ive heard Tim also does make Mules with alnico V magnets, there is a sticky in the pickup section about the characteristics of magnet types like you maybe have found allready.

[Scotty477]

Thanks Henk

I spent hours last night going through the sound clips and a few BKP's caught my attention.

Crawler in the bridge position sounds rather nice and will have a degree of versatility that I'm looking for. I also liked the VHII bridge sound.

The neck is a different matter though. What I want from the neck pickup is warmth and clarity - without fuzz / overload in the dirty sound.

If I was brave I would just go for a calibrated set of Black Dogs. They sound terrific but I'm not sure if they will have the versatility that I need in my current situation (wedding/party gigs playing old MoR 'standards').

On the subject of the 500T - you're quite correct. I've only put up with it for this long as I could 'disguise' it and the 496R - to a point - using the Boss GT6.

The only trouble with doing that is that you tend to lose the character and tone of the guitar    .... So they have to go   :D


If all goes well with my LP Classic, I've decided to kit out my '94 Epi Standard with a set of BKP's as well.

The Epi has a birdseye maple top and is one of those 'one in twenty' Epi's that play really well and appears to be soundly built. The stock pup's are far to weak though. It sounds much thinner - unplugged -  than my LP so the BKP selection will be different. Maybe a calibrated mule set would be good for this?

Anyway, I do apologise ... I'm rambling on here  :sing1:

[Twinfan]

Hunter seems to do just fine with Black Dogs in his Epi Les Paul and he plays a variety of stuff?  Maybe drop him a PM for his opinion?

I'd be tempted to play it safe the other way - put the all-rounders in your Gibson (set of Mules) and gamble with the Epi (Black Dogs).  That way your main guitar (Gibson I presume?) is the most flexible......

[Scotty477]

The Black Dog (or other BKP's i'm not certain about) option may not be such a gamble now.

I just spoke to the tech that's going to be fitting the pup's and he's basically saying that if the set of BKP's I choose aren't the sound that I'm after, he'll allow me to exchange them within 21 days (providing I bring back everything they came in and with)  :)

Given that, I could go out on a limb and try some BKP's that I'm not 100% certain about. I haven't asked but I'm assuming this exchange is their standard policy - which is excellent service.

Only problem I still have is the choice ....  :hmm:

[Henk]

Thanks Henk
The neck is a different matter though. What I want from the neck pickup is warmth and clarity - without fuzz / overload in the dirty sound.

The neck AIV mule pretty much fits that discription pretty good, youll get some overload past noon gain setting which get nasty past around 2:00 on my JCM800, hope thats clear for you. No dark fuzz heard yet, but i never full throttle the gain, turns everything to mush.

I personally think mules sound best in a rather clear sounding guitar accoustically because that would compliment the mules IMO.

However, if you like the blackdog's youll definately like the tigh bottom end of the mules so maybe that would be an arguement to put them in the gibson, good caps to roll a bit off the brigthness might make it a very versatile pickup for allround pop.

I personally like the open PAF sound that the mules have over anything else, its such a rare trait IMHO. The crawler bridge seems to have the same quality to my ears. Then again that would be similar to an alnico V mule but wound less hot, so its pretty much in the same league what im thinking out loud here  :lol:

Pretty much everything overwound or 'hot' wound sounds darker so anything in the 8k range has my vote.