Author Topic: Tone Pot Wiring - which way is the best? (Read 25918 times)

hunter · « **on:** December 05, 2007, 01:15:25 PM »

Right, so I don't get this 100% yet.

It seems there are three major ways to wire the tone pot.

1. So called "Modern"
It seems the issue here is that you lose treble when turning down Volume, is that correct?

2. So called "Vintage"
It seems the issue here is that tone and volume pot are kind of interactive. But it seems it retains treble better on the volume pot, is that correct?

So what do you guys recommend?

Actually I hardly use my tone pots but am concerned about vol losing treble.

Roobubba · « **Reply #1 on:** December 05, 2007, 01:32:47 PM »

Don't quote me, and I'm probably wrong, but I thought the old style wiring loses treble and the modern wiring doesn't so much...

Again, I could be completely wrong!

Roo

Twinfan · « **Reply #2 on:** December 05, 2007, 01:33:36 PM »

Hunter,

The way you have the tone pots themselves wired up in those two pics is different. This alone makes absolutely no difference to anything. It's all in the way the volume pot is connected to the tone pot.

Your assumptions are completely correct and it's all down to personal choice. I have several Les Pauls and SGs and they're wired:

Gibson LP std - vintage wiring
Gibson LP Junior Lite - vintage wiring

These are both wired vintage way for a more vintage tone. It retains brightness with the PAFs and P90s and also lowers the pickup output slightly as the pickup sees a more variable load (the tone pot is in parallel to the volume).

Tokai LP std - modern wiring
Pearl LP std - modern wiring
Signature LP std - modern wiring
Gibson LP Special - modern wiring
Tokai SG Special - modern wiring

These are wired in the modern way either because I like the stock tone or because I prefer the more consistent tone roll off. I also like the extra output and fatness that modern wiring gives as the pickup sees a more constant load (the tone pot is in series to the volume). It's a subtle effect but it's there.

Epiphone SG - vintage wiring
Gibson SG - vintage wiring

I've tried both wiring types in both these SGs and preferred vintage each time as they mudded up too much with modern wiring when lowering the volumes. All that mahogany can sound a bit thick.

Overall opinion?

SGs generally sound better with vintage wiring by retaining their highs better. Modern wiring was too muddy for my tastes.

A Les Paul sounds fuller and smoother with modern wiring and is my preferred option. Vintage wiring is brighter, you may need to tweak the tone/volume pots more and with your volume less than 5 rolling off the tone will also reduce volume.

hunter · « **Reply #3 on:** December 05, 2007, 01:50:00 PM »

Ahhh @ TwinFan, that makes sense. Hmmm, well let me first make sure I get proper pots and caps for my Edwards, then I'll try both ways.

Actually, it might be interesting to add a switch just temporarily to try both ways on the fly flipping back and forth ...

HTH AMPS · « **Reply #4 on:** December 05, 2007, 07:08:09 PM »

I always use the vintage style - all my guitars sounded louder and more open after doing this.

The highs certainly are retained better than the modern wiring imo even with the pots up full. Technically there shouldn't be much difference, but it IS noticeable to my ears.

:twisted:

hunter · « **Reply #5 on:** December 05, 2007, 07:57:04 PM »

Quote from: HEAVIER THAN HELL

I always use the vintage style - all my guitars sounded louder and more open after doing this.

The highs certainly are retained better than the modern wiring imo even with the pots up full. Technically there shouldn't be much difference, but it IS noticeable to my ears.

:twisted:

BIG TIME. I have just rewired my Edwards and it's like someone took a blanket off the amp. Now I wait for new pots (ordered a set from RS Guitarworks, yummy!)...

Also rewired my BKP-92 equipped LP special, BIG difference, much more open, great cleans too - seems like this brings me much closer to the sounds I am after in general.

hunter · « **Reply #6 on:** December 05, 2007, 08:10:12 PM »

Hmm this is on the gibson site, but it's different, cap soldered to the tone pot. Is this Vintage or Modern style or sth else?

http://www.gibson.com/Files/schematics/lpdswiring.gif

Philly Q · « **Reply #7 on:** December 05, 2007, 08:51:28 PM »

Must admit this is something I've never experimented with - I think all my guitars have the "modern" wiring. I must give it a go.

:?: What happens if you have "modern" wiring on one pickup and "vintage" on the other? Any weird interactivity in the middle switch position?

FELINEGUITARS · « **Reply #8 on:** December 05, 2007, 09:24:00 PM »

Quote from: Philly Q

:?: What happens if you have "modern" wiring on one pickup and "vintage" on the other? Any weird interactivity in the middle switch position?

Then it only works thru a Marshall Vintage Modern

Philly Q · « **Reply #9 on:** December 05, 2007, 09:32:55 PM »

:lol: :lol: :lol:

hunter · « **Reply #10 on:** December 05, 2007, 11:15:55 PM »

Quote from: FELINEGUITARS

Quote from: Philly Q

:?: What happens if you have "modern" wiring on one pickup and "vintage" on the other? Any weird interactivity in the middle switch position?

Then it only works thru a Marshall Vintage Modern

hahaha, good one ... also when I was googling for the wiring options I only got Marshall ads as returns :P

In fact I wired the good ole Epi like this: neck vintage, bridge modern, works great!

What do the pros say, Jonathan, Tim, anyone?

Twinfan · « **Reply #11 on:** December 06, 2007, 08:47:43 AM »

Quote from: hunter

Hmm this is on the gibson site, but it's different, cap soldered to the tone pot. Is this Vintage or Modern style or sth else?

http://www.gibson.com/Files/schematics/lpdswiring.gif

That's the horrible "reverse wired" schematic. I believe it sucks tone BIG time, but I've never tried it. I don't think it's used much for a reason!

Interesting that you find you like vintage wiring Hunter. I think it has a lot to do with the clarity of the amp you're using. I have a very clear amp/cab/speaker setup and the modern wiring adds a bit of "warmth". I would imagine a Cornford or Bogner that are a bit thicker sounding may prefer vintage wiring?

By the way, the schematic on the warranty card I got with my Stormy Monday last week was for Modern Wiring......

hunter · « **Reply #12 on:** December 06, 2007, 10:56:01 AM »

Quote from: Twinfan

I would imagine a Cornford or Bogner that are a bit thicker sounding may prefer vintage wiring?

By the way, the schematic on the warranty card I got with my Stormy Monday last week was for Modern Wiring......

Good point TF. Actually all my in the past were "tone-sucked" - maybe from now on I will get comments like "da Fizz" or "teh Brittle" ... :lol:

Yesterday I moved the bass pot from 11 to 3 o'clock, mid from 9 to 12 and treble from 3 to 11 on the Budda to achieve the same flavour of tone - but I think it's a bit better on chords, maybe a bit harder to play on leads, I need more experience.

It's true that Tims schematics are for modern wiring. Guitarelectronics.com say there wouldn't be a difference, which is just not true IMO.

On http://www.guitarelectronics.com/category/wiringresources.1basicwiringfaqs/ it says "Keep in mind that the capacitor value only affects the sound when the tone control is being used (pot in the bass setting) The tone capacitor value will have little to no effect on the sound when the tone pot is in the treble setting. "

Philly Q · « **Reply #13 on:** December 29, 2007, 02:11:42 PM »

Apologies for resurrecting an old thread, but I'm just pondering how to wire up my LP Jr and all the relevant info is already here. I just wanted to clear something up:

Quote from: Twinfan

The way you have the tone pots themselves wired up in those two pics is different. This alone makes absolutely no difference to anything. It's all in the way the volume pot is connected to the tone pot.

So with regard to the tone pot itself, it makes no difference at all if
(a) the cap connects to the middle lug and the outer lug is grounded ("modern"); or
(b) the cap connects to the outer lug and the middle lug is grounded ("vintage")?

I'm probably thinking about things too much, as usual, but I'm just a bit baffled why they bothered to show the tone pot wiring differently in the diagrams (and the ones on this thread too). Maybe Gibson just changed the way they do things for no particular reason (not for the first time), but it does seem odd. :?

Anyway, that being the case I can use either schematic and switch between "vintage" and "modern" simply by changing one connection - the lug on the volume control the cap connects to. Correct? Or not? :?:

Twinfan · « **Reply #14 on:** December 29, 2007, 02:25:14 PM »

Quote from: Philly Q

So with regard to the tone pot itself, it makes no difference at all if
(a) the cap connects to the middle lug and the outer lug is grounded ("modern"); or
(b) the cap connects to the outer lug and the middle lug is grounded ("vintage")?

Correct! I've never read any evidence to the contrary.

Quote from: Philly Q

I'm probably thinking about things too much, as usual, but I'm just a bit baffled why they bothered to show the tone pot wiring differently in the diagrams (and the ones on this thread too). Maybe Gibson just changed the way they do things for no particular reason (not for the first time), but it does seem odd. :?

I believe Gibson changed the way they wired the tone pots around the time that the SG came out (1960-61ish). No idea why!

Quote from: Philly Q

Anyway, that being the case I can use either schematic and switch between "vintage" and "modern" simply by changing one connection - the lug on the volume control the cap connects to. Correct? Or not? :?:

Completely correct yet again :)