Author Topic: Think you're good? (Read 9917 times)

silentrage · « **Reply #45 on:** January 01, 2008, 08:32:01 AM »

Quote from: ilyti

Quote from: Jonesy76

2. Fast does not equal good
3. Fast does not equal musical.

And every shredder knows that. Is it hard to grasp that people listen to music that happens to be technical becuase they like the music, not for the fact that it's technical?
Technique is a tool for your music, just as gear is tool for your music. Some people want to make music that requires a lot of skill, and some don't have that desire.

For the record, I do have a few Cream albums that I enjoy a little bit. Then I put on Paul Gilbert and hear him do everything they did only galaxies better.

I think we're already established the fact that there's good fast and there's bad fast. So let's not perpectuate any more of this argument about whether speed is a good thing.

I think what you're trying to say is, without both speed AND musicality, there can be no virtuosity. And that rhymes, so it must be true.
:P

_tom_ · « **Reply #46 on:** January 01, 2008, 12:53:24 PM »

I've only just discovered Ritchie Kotzen, his styles pretty good I reckon and much better than a lot of shredders - http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=VjDnN_KotMs&feature=related

Great tone as well, me makes that strat sound so fat.

Philly Q · « **Reply #47 on:** January 01, 2008, 02:02:47 PM »

Quote from: _tom_

I've only just discovered Ritchie Kotzen, his styles pretty good I reckon and much better than a lot of shredders - http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=VjDnN_KotMs&feature=related

Great tone as well, me makes that strat sound so fat.

And, as I'm forever saying, he's a great songwriter and a totally bloody awesome singer. The shredding is just an added bonus.

Muso · « **Reply #48 on:** January 01, 2008, 05:15:16 PM »

to the guy who said paul gilbert does cream galaxies better is totally insane, cream was a genre defining band who did lots of cool new things and also have a great catalogue of songs. Whereas Paul Gilber is just a plain and simple rock shred gutiarist, his solo stuff is pretty poor compared to his bandwork which I am a huge fan of i.e. early Racer X & Mr Big.

jt · « **Reply #49 on:** January 01, 2008, 05:21:12 PM »

:D I cant believe that i havn`t posted a reply slagging you all for missing the point ! :lol: :lol:

As it goes plastercaster got it spot on then completely missed the point :roll:

To some guitar is a means of being a musical instrument, a means by which we make music both good & bad. How the instrument is used is not important but the outcome is what we care about.

To others the guitar is about the guitar. Pushing the barriers back as far as they can go regardless of the music ie there not song orientated. The song is a means to an end the end being about the playing so there technique is what they use to express themselves.

The secret is to be able to separate them both as a listener. Its perfectly fine to say you dont care for the speed merchant approach or that your more song orientated, or that you think a piece of fast playing is simply great, different horses for different courses.

As a young guitarists growing up i loved many great players non of them for there playing techniques but always because i loved the songs. I loved Randy not because he could play [ he obviously can ] but he wrote Crazy Train, a Heavy Metal legend. Look at Jimmy Page not noted for hes playing but was there a better song writer in the Rock Metal field ? Its the same reason that i love AC/DC, Judas Priest, rainbow, Genesis, Rush, Motorhead etc etc the list is endless. Its the biggest reason i`m so disappointed about the current Metal scene over the last 15years. They`ve all forgotten how to write good catchy songs that i can walk away singing.

BUT this doesn`t stop me appreciating great players. I`m a fan of Vai [ who i`ve seen several times live ] Satch [ i`ve payed out £130 for a special package seat at his Hammersmith gig next March ] Andy Timmons who i`ve actually received an Email from in the past ! Paul Gilbert is a great fun speed merchant i have a lot of time for as well. Yet i still no that the 2 best guitar solo`s in the world ever were both recorded by Dave Gilmour on Pink Floyds The Wall album [ Comfortably Numb 1st with Another Brick In The Wall prt 2 being the second best ] Oh & what about Billy Gibbons solo for Gimme Some Lovin`slow but beautifully played.

Remember speed is about the possibilities take & listen to it in context....

:D 8)

Crazy_Joe · « **Reply #50 on:** January 01, 2008, 05:46:03 PM »

I think JT has got it spot on there, though there is one part in there i'm not sure about.

"They`ve all forgotten how to write good catchy songs that i can walk away singing. "

I've just never really felt that that was what metal was about. Though i agree with it being good for rock.

Philly Q · « **Reply #51 on:** January 01, 2008, 05:55:48 PM »

Quote from: Crazy_Joe

I think JT has got it spot on there, though there is one part in there i'm not sure about.

"They`ve all forgotten how to write good catchy songs that i can walk away singing. "

I've just never really felt that that was what metal was about. Though i agree with it being good for rock.

And that is another debate in itself, touching on subjects such as

1. Where does "rock" end and "metal" begin (and is that line, if there is one, constantly shifting)?
2. How to define "catchy"?
3. How to define "a song"?

And that perennial favourite

4. How to define "singing"?

Let's not go there again...

silentrage · « **Reply #52 on:** January 01, 2008, 07:51:03 PM »

Quote from: Philly Q

Quote from: _tom_
I've only just discovered Ritchie Kotzen, his styles pretty good I reckon and much better than a lot of shredders - http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=VjDnN_KotMs&feature=related

Great tone as well, me makes that strat sound so fat.

And, as I'm forever saying, he's a great songwriter and a totally bloody awesome singer. The shredding is just an added bonus.

Fully agree.
He's one insane shredder who grew out in a big way.
Or an insane musician who still shreds, either way he's damn good. :)

broken cord · « **Reply #53 on:** January 02, 2008, 05:46:53 PM »

Quote from: silentrage

Quote from: Philly Q
Quote from: _tom_
I've only just discovered Ritchie Kotzen, his styles pretty good I reckon and much better than a lot of shredders - http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=VjDnN_KotMs&feature=related

Great tone as well, me makes that strat sound so fat.

And, as I'm forever saying, he's a great songwriter and a totally bloody awesome singer. The shredding is just an added bonus.

Fully agree.
He's a insane musician who still shreds, he's damn good. :)

Kotzen is an incredible player who just happens to be well steeped in shred.

Crazy_Joe · « **Reply #54 on:** January 02, 2008, 06:17:28 PM »

Quote from: Philly Q

Quote from: Crazy_Joe
I think JT has got it spot on there, though there is one part in there i'm not sure about.

"They`ve all forgotten how to write good catchy songs that i can walk away singing. "

I've just never really felt that that was what metal was about. Though i agree with it being good for rock.

And that is another debate in itself, touching on subjects such as

1. Where does "rock" end and "metal" begin (and is that line, if there is one, constantly shifting)?
2. How to define "catchy"?
3. How to define "a song"?

And that perennial favourite

4. How to define "singing"?

Let's not go there again...

haha yeh there's no point even starting that debate.

JJretroTONEGOD · « **Reply #55 on:** January 03, 2008, 05:58:40 PM »

Quote from: Jonesy76

Funnilly enough I grew up and decided that:
1. Honestly, I'm never going to play that technically well, nor that fast.
2. Fast does not equal good
3. Fast does not equal musical.

.

That's ok, but if you are not pushing the boundaries of your own ability, then why play guitar at all? To me this is absolutley insane! lol

Philly Q · « **Reply #56 on:** January 03, 2008, 06:08:35 PM »

Quote from: JJretroTONEGOD

That's ok, but if you are not pushing the boundaries of your own ability, then why play guitar at all?

To have fun, to make music!!!

It doesn't have to be a competition (even against yourself). And you can push your boundaries in ways other than notes per second.

This debate has just gone full circle. Again. And we're not getting anywhere. Let's all just agree to disagree.

JJretroTONEGOD · « **Reply #57 on:** January 03, 2008, 06:31:09 PM »

Quote from: Philly Q

Quote from: JJretroTONEGOD
That's ok, but if you are not pushing the boundaries of your own ability, then why play guitar at all?

To have fun, to make music!!!

It doesn't have to be a competition (even against yourself). And you can push your boundaries in ways other than notes per second.

This debate has just gone full circle. Again. And we're not getting anywhere. Let's all just agree to disagree.

I agree about music is not a competition.

but why not have fun AND push boundaries? You can have both! everyone is almost in denial that fast playing exists, and if you people hate fast playing so much then why bother posting a response on a forum about Shawn Lane?

Crazy_Joe · « **Reply #58 on:** January 03, 2008, 06:31:34 PM »

Personally, I didn't start playing guitar to compete with all the shredders, i started playing and have kept playing it because i enjoy it. It's a hobby and it's great fun to play in a band and play/make the music you love and all that.

To me, if i kept trying to push the boundaries and be better than everyone, then it would cease to be fun anymore and i think i would loose interest in the instrument. Why compete with everyone when it's much more fun for everyone to be able to play on the same level.

Edit: well not the same level, but you get what i mean :D

noodleplugerine · « **Reply #59 on:** January 03, 2008, 06:38:59 PM »

Why does it have to be a competition?

I improve my technique because I enjoy pushing my limits, and I love playing fast.

I find playing fast really fun, and I'm not competing with anyone :s