Bill Turner ex EMG has a hissy fit at Tim

[Elliot]

He's BT - Tut tut - the bitchy world of pickup manufacturers (In my experience of cross examining experts in court, when people are this rude, something must be amiss)

http://www.fenderforum.com/forum.html?db=&topic_number=661512&offset=27

[Fourth Feline]

Yes indeed " the lady doth protest  too much" ..  

The great thing that lifts Tim's pickups beyond any speculative war of words, is that other old saying " hearing is believing ".

I have heard , and I believe in BKP all the way !  :D

[sambo]

He comes across very bitter/jealous. Whether he's right or wrong (I have no idea on whose right about that whole copper issue), I'm sure Tim wouldn't react like that in the same situation.

I remember one occasion when I was a right c--k to Tim (sorry! :oops: ) and he was still polite and courteous.

Anyway, what I find even more silly about that forum is this issue:

Some guy: "I sent [an e-mail] to Tim Mills at Bareknuckle to see if he would be able to custom wind me something along similar lines ,:"

Then the same guy says:

"Thing is when you look at Bareknuckle's range of pups they're pretty much all overwound...so of course he's going to try and talk me out of an underwound pickup."

But you were asking him to CUSTOM WIND YOU A PICKUP, so what on earth does Bare Knuckle's range have to do with anything?!?!?! Why would Tim go out of his way to get you to buy one of his existing range rather than wind you a custom pickup?! :?

I mean fair enough if Tim's wrong, but I really don't think he would actively deceive someone like that. :?

[Jonny]

Even if he didn't agree with Tim he didn't have to sound like a stuck up faggot who's shiteting arrogance.

[sambo]

Even if he didn't agree with Tim he didn't have to sound like a stuck up faggot who's shiteting arrogance.

Very eloquent Jonny. :lol:

[Jonny]

Even if he didn't agree with Tim he didn't have to sound like a stuck up faggot who's shiteting arrogance.

Very eloquent Jonny. :lol:

When someone, who thinks he's better, insults another person's hard work. I find that $%&#ing disgusting.

[ailean]

Hmmm, well BT was certainly rude, which he really didn't need to be. As for the technical information... I really don't know, I don't wind pickups, and both of these guys (BT & Tim) are experts. I value Tim's advice and knowledge but he could be wrong on this issue, that said I know he's spent a long time on R&D :)

The overwound comment is a little weird, I guess BK's possibly do seem 'hot' compared to others on the market, but my understanding is that each has been designed to generate a particular sound, if I gives that sound then it can't be under or over wound.

Overall I don't care anyway, if Tim makes pickups that sound this good based on what the pixies told him, crystal healing, and alien tech, thats fine by me, keep it up!   :twisted:

[WezV]

this bit made me laugh

I think it`s time that Tim had his ears checked and brushed up on his knowledge about the behavior and technical aspects of guitar pickups.

i am going to go outon a limb and say even if tim wasnt exactly sure what the pickups on blackie were actually like.... i know he could wind me something to get that sound

i feel that tims ability to capture a sound almost transends the  details about what magnet a pickup actualy has and how many windings, and whether or not the cavity is shielded

some people do it purely by the numbers and specs of those traditioal pickups and i know sticking close to tradition is certainly a large part of the BKP ethos.. but at the heart of it is a man who understands how to control some of the MOJO of the whole situation.  those little details the rest of us can nver quite understand fully

as somebody that spent a long time making his own pickups i really appreciate the talent at the heart of BKP that lets us all have so much control over our sound.  i could only ever approximate the sounds i was after but BKP's ge me a lot closer

anyway, i am drunk and probably gushing too much

its true that a certain percentage of the popular BKP's are overwound but to say

Thing is when you look at Bareknuckle's range of pups they're pretty much all overwound...so of course he's going to try and talk me out of an underwound pickup.

ignores the quality and variety present in the whiole range - which i just see as the starting point for what BKP can offer

i am not someone who naturally goes for overwound pickups and i have had underwound and overwound stuff from them and never found a pickup to be lacking in the job its meant to do.  they all make my guitars sound awesome and thats the point

[Elliot]

The overwound comment is not correct in any event - my Apaches are 5.7k and my Mother's Milks are 5.85k in the neck and middle.  These are correct 50s and 60s values.  What Tim does is make the bridge about .7k hotter (i.e. 6.4, 6.6k respectively).  

Now to Fender pickup purists this may be wrong - the winders wound their pickups without concern for position - but to players not hung up on these things the point is clear - on a strat the bridge is the problem area, too much ice pick (read the same FDP forum and many other discussions) - The overwind on the bridge makes tonal sense as it cuts the icepick problems and equalises things out. -

As to Bill Turner saying no one complained about 70s Fender pickups being weak - he must be suffering amnesia - why was his own powerful EMGs so successful? - because players hated those trashy 70s Fender winds at the time - they still do, its just fashion now dictates that 70s strats are vintage guitars.

[38thBeatle]

I agree with Elliott, my Apaches are hardly overwound. As for no-one complaining about Strat pickups-well no but then again there was no after market alternative so you would have had little choice but to lump them and get on with it. Significantly, my Apaches are in a 1970's Strat and they replaced EMGs which in turn replaced the originals which were quite shrill. The EMGs were OK but I hated having to have a battery on board and they just didn't do it for me-but that is just it, they were OK whereas the BKPs are superb.

[horsehead]

Not knowing great technical details on how to wind pickups, but it's a bit unfair to call out Tim on a forum that (as far as we know) doesn't frequent & basically say that he doesn't know what he talking about. At least have the decency to email Tim direct & discuss the matter

[hunter]

I was just wondering: who would want Clapton's tone anyways? The guy is in my opinion sooo overrated. He had his good days, but calling him god while there are a certain Mr. Hendrix, Mr. Page or Mr. Beck around ... well let's say he might have been god to some, but surely not in monotheism.

And then well, the guy can have his opinion, and that's what the whole thing about internet forums is about anyways, we're talking about him here as well, right?

Working at EMG I'd say doesn't qualify for great knowledge about pickups, and as long as we know that Tim makes the best pickups, what do we care?


 8)

[Elliot]

I have to say that over the years i've mellowed towards Clapton - I hated his tone and sound at first but now can see why people get so excited about his playing.  Maybe I'm just getting old, but my holy trinity is fast ossifying around Claption, Hendrix and Peter Green - and to think I started out listening to the fast era Gary Moore and Yngwie.

[Will]

I could understand someone from SD maybe complaining, as its a simialr market, but actives and passives are completely different, and what passives EMG do produce aren't particularly great. Haven't heard anyone from SD complaining though.
So why doesn't he make some good pickups then(especially such a vast range as Tim does)!? jealousy?

[_tom_]

I remember one occasion when I was a right c--k to Tim (sorry! :oops: ) and he was still polite and courteous.

:lol: Same here. Well, not being rude, but just for asking so many bloody questions, I can only imagine how annoying that must get :P He's always replied with useful answers though :) Also, last week I emailed him asking about the screw sizes BKP use so I could order some new ones from WD or something and he just asked how many I needed and sent them for free, great service! I'm now debating whether or not I should ask him how much different a VHII will sound to a Rebel Yell in my Les Paul :lol: